[CR]RE: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #750 - 25 msgs


Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PY-10
From: "Cohen, Robert K., MR." <Robert.Cohen@cmtc.7atc.army.mil>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:56:09 +0200
Subject: [CR]RE: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #750 - 25 msgs

For "Kroil" go to Brownell's gunsmithing supplies.

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:22 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #750 - 25 msgs

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."

CR

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Masi or Waterford (RALEIGH531@aol.com) 2. Re: stuck handlebars...help, please (Garrison Hilliard) 3. Re: Masi or Waterford (Thomas Rawson) 4. Re: Stuck stem (krawls) 5. Re: (Roy H. Drinkwater) 6. Re: Re: (Rick Chasteen) 7. It worked out I now own a 70s Paramount track bike (Wornoutguy@aol.com) 8. Discovering Why Good Parts Are Good (Paulie Davis) 9. Need Help Identifying old Simplex Derailleur (Scott Goldstein) 10. RE: RE: Masi vs. Waterford (kevin weitzel) 11. RE: RE: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford (stevens) 12. Re: CR folk at Bike Show in Lost Wages (Sarah Gibson) 13. Re: RE: RE: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford (Roy H. Drinkwater) 14. raleigh cyclocross frame (Russell roth) 15. Simplex Derailuer (skip) 16. oops simplex deraileuer (skip) 17. Re: CR folk at Bike Show in Lost Wages (Sheldon Brown) 18. Re: Re: Stuck stem (Garrison Hilliard) 19. Simplex derailleur (Roy H. Drinkwater) 20. Re: Re: (RALEIGH531@aol.com) 21. Kroil (OROBOYZ@aol.com) 22. Re: RE: Masi vs. Waterford (Thomas Rawson) 23. Re: Kroil (Brian Baylis) 24. Re: Kroil (RALEIGH531@aol.com) 25. Re: Kroil (Chuck Schmidt)

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Message: 1 From: RALEIGH531@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:06:40 EDT Subject: Re: [CR]Masi or Waterford To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

In a message dated 8/29/01 8:51:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ELandpapa@aol.com writes:


> I've never owned a custom frame and only know what I've learned from this
> list about Masi and Waterford, however I did ride my 1994 Bianchi Eros
> 40.3
> miles today in 93% heat and high humidity and enjoyed every
> mile.Consequently, if I was looking for a new bike and money was no object
> I
>

Go look at new Bianchi's and see what you think. They've been inflicted with the same high tech disease as most every other volume producer. The Bianchi lugged train left the station a few years ago............

Pete Geurds Douglassville, PA

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Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Garrison Hilliard <garrison@efn.org> To: Huemax@aol.com Cc: Roadgiant@cs.com, twrawson@worldnet.att.net, OROBOYZ@aol.com, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]stuck handlebars...help, please

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 Huemax@aol.com wrote:
> I have also situation with my Lambert, totally stuck.

Well, yeah... if you have the Lambert "death fork", you are stuck!

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Message: 3 Reply-To: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> From: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> To: <RALEIGH531@aol.com> Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Masi or Waterford Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:26:27 -0700

Bianchi's not alone in sailing away from what was once cool stuff. Point of original question was to get at what we value - both the tangible, physical and social, cultural. Think its good to focus on the "attributes" and recognize which is which. I find it hard to revere old stuff because its old. But old stuff that is truly good is truly worth lusting for. New stuff that is good is the future collectible - with any luck - and a steady hand at the helm - so supporting that is important too.

Seen too much junk at swap meets to think its all good and I dont pine for a time that was. Want to know which is good from whenever and why. Havent found a curly stay Hetchins in 62Cm after a year of looking so good stuff gets known and bought and hoarded cause they dont make it anymore - thats an attribute that
has value.
Tom Rawson
Oakland, CA


----- Original Message -----
From: RALEIGH531@aol.com
To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [CR]Masi or Waterford



> In a message dated 8/29/01 8:51:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> ELandpapa@aol.com writes:
>
>
> > I've never owned a custom frame and only know what I've learned from this
> > list about Masi and Waterford, however I did ride my 1994 Bianchi Eros
> > 40.3
> > miles today in 93% heat and high humidity and enjoyed every
> > mile.Consequently, if I was looking for a new bike and money was no object
> > I
> >
>
> Go look at new Bianchi's and see what you think.
> They've been inflicted with the same high tech disease as most every other
> volume producer. The Bianchi lugged train left the station a few years
> ago............
>
> Pete Geurds
> Douglassville, PA
>
>

To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Discovering Why Good Parts Are Good

--- Thomas Rawson <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> But old stuff that is truly good is truly worth lusting for. New stuff that is good is the future collectible - with any luck - and a steady hand at the helm - so supporting that is important too.

As a total newbie, it has been interesting for me to see why good parts are so important. A freebie Raleigh ("Wow! A Raleigh!") mixte I found leaning against a hedge two weeks ago on trash morning quickly revealed why it *very much* wasn't a collectible when I started to repair it.

The wierd stamped brakes wouldn't *adjust* and I could not see how they ever could have been made to work very well actually. The crank looked kinda like a cottered crank, but it wasn't. The hubs were wierd. And the more I looked, the less I liked and the more I learned why I didn't like what I didn't like. (Before, starting out, I had only worked with Campagnolo, Suntour and Shimano. And, no, I don't wanna talk about the Huret derailleur.)

Paulie Davis Learning slowly in a cooler Los Angeles

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Message: 9 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:23:51 -0700 To: "classicrendezvous-bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> From: Scott Goldstein <sgpnet@earthlink.net> Subject: [CR]Need Help Identifying old Simplex Derailleur

Just got this from a mate in England. Would love to know its age and model name. many thanks

scott

http://www2.sendpix.com/albums/010829/16241400f123c0002d003f7/

---

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Message: 10 From: "kevin weitzel" <kevinsbikes@netzero.net> To: "Diane Feldman" <feldmanbike@home.com> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:40:02 -0700

Tom Ooooh! This is such an easy question (s). If I were an auto collector and had a 1946 Plymouth, I would have a great automobile. True? However, since the acquisition of Plymouth by Chrysler and then a conglomeration of Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, Jeep, Eagle, and AMC I would say that there isn't a Plymouth today that has that same mystique or 'history.' I mean, would you consider my Plymouth Breeze a car that offers 'history' as part of the purchase? O.K. I guess if you count the Prowler you may have an arguement but that is not a car for the averagage man/person. I equal this to Waterford. Changing the name and producing high quality bike frames isn't history. Mercedes has changed year after year with innovation after innovation, yet they still have true and well established history. They are still sought after as the/a car to have. When collecting or buying for value, history, or a simple investment... Masi comes to mind. I am sorry, as I don't want to offend a Waterford owner, but Waterford AINT no Masi when it comes to this regard. Fineto'

Kevin Weitzel

---------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

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Message: 11 To: kevinsbikes@netzero.net, feldmanbike@home.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org From: "stevens" <stevens@veloworks.com> Subject: RE: RE: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:51:59 -0700

Are you aware of the history of Waterford?

Waterford WAS the Schwinn Paramount factory for many, many years. When Schwinn went bankrupt (the first time) and was sold to Scott/Zell-Chilmark, Richard Schwinn (the only member of the family still into bikes) and Marc Muller bought the Paramount factory back from the new owners.

Since Schwinn and Paramount were trademarks that now belonged to outside investors, Richard and Marc had to change the name. The factory was in Waterford, Wisconsin ... hence Waterford Precision Cycles.

The 1970s Paramounts (and most especially the 1988 50th Anniversay Paramounts) were built by Marc Muller's group in Waterford. They were forced into a name change, but the history is there.

Anything called a Schwinn Paramount circa post-1994 is not really a Paramount.

The current Waterfords are the only true Paramounts being made ... even if they do have a different name.

For more, check WPC's website at:

http://www.waterfordbikes.com

Pay special attention to:

http://www.waterfordbikes.com/hp.htm


>--- Original Message ---
>From: "kevin weitzel" <kevinsbikes@netzero.net>
>To: "Diane Feldman" <feldmanbike@home.com>
>Date: 8/29/01 4:40:02 PM
>
>Tom
> Ooooh! This is such an easy question (s). If I were an auto collector
>and had a 1946 Plymouth, I would have a great automobile. True?
   However,
>since the acquisition of Plymouth by Chrysler and then a conglomeration of
>Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, Jeep, Eagle, and AMC I would say that there isn't
>a Plymouth today that has that same mystique or 'history.' I mean, would
>you consider my Plymouth Breeze a car that offers 'history' as part of the
>purchase? O.K. I guess if you count the Prowler you may have an arguement
>but that is not a car for the averagage man/person. I equal this to
>Waterford. Changing the name and producing high quality bike frames isn't
>history. Mercedes has changed year after year with innovation after
>innovation, yet they still have true and well established history.
   They are
>still sought after as the/a car to have.
> When collecting or buying for value, history, or a simple investment...
>Masi comes to mind. I am sorry, as I don't want to offend a Waterford
>owner, but Waterford AINT no Masi when it comes to this regard.
   Fineto'
>
> Kevin Weitzel
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------
>NetZero Platinum
>Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
>http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97