In a message dated 1/10/01 12:44:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bikerdaver writes:
<< Dale- I was just looking at the Concorde on the CR homepage. It is listed under the "Benelux" country origin, at the same time one can plainly see the Italian colors motif >>
Hey Dave:
The Concorde brand is a Dutch one.. It was/is "owned" by a large influential Dutch wholesaler, the same guy who now owns Veltec Sports here in the states and control Vredstein tires, Tackx trainers & more. Concorde bikes were the official "ride" of the Dutch PDM team and thought to be Dutch in most ways.. Of course the fact that the frames were Italian (Ciocc) or French (Vitus) was thought to be irrelevant. I admit that is nuts, but there it is..
<< an Italian marketing consortium by the name of ULTIMA, in an old VeloNews from the late 70s. What is note worthy is that it lists members of that consortium as Campagnolo parts, Concorde frames/bikes, and Rigi bike racing shoes. >>
That was the name for that Dutch concern for a while. I am not sure that that shoe is correct.. Rigi was a radical Italian bike brand .. I don't remember a shoe line by that name...
FWIW, later, in 1980 + - , there was a different group formed and headquartered in Texas called Ultima. This time is was actually Campagnolo USA with a bunch of other Italian products, Cinelli, Columbus, Nisi, Regina, and a spoke company that escapes my memory right now...
<< I actually thought someone told me that they were made in England, but I have no confirmation of that either. >>
No, no Concorde from the UK in my time (1972 & on...)
<< Did you ever get a chance to read my inquiry asking how you came to the conclusion that Cinelli/Centurion and Cinelli/Lotus were only worth their components, >>
Hmmm. I do not remember your specific query about that..But I would say that , in general, a "house brand" made by a famous maker under contract usually doesn't razz any collectors' berries so to speak. A bike kinda needs to be marked after it's maker to get the big points. In fact the Centurion bikes were nothing like a "real" Cinelli.. They could have just as likely been made by Romani, Atala, Carnielli, or any of a "slew" of Italian factories.. In fact, they most likely were not made by the same workshop that Cinelli product we pay so dearly for came from. They were "designed by" Cinelli (commission paid) and for sure farmed out, as the Cinelli workshop hadn't the capacity for runs that size.
The Lotus was about the same deal ..This brand with an even stronger image of being Japanese so the allure and romance of a spiffy Italian marque is even less likely.
In the case of Concorde, they also are not considered specially valuable by cognoscenti.. These bikes ARE helped a bit because they were "under" a top pro team and that there are not cheapo brethren floating about..
All this should have been prefaced that these bikes are immensely rideable and true quality designs, but the question was are they worth more than their components.. It takes a specialness or a nostalgic link or a famous lineage or a refined level of workmanship to make a bike rise above it's sheer utility and to become desirable to folks who discern between old neat old bike and another. In my opinion, the Centurion Cinelli and Lotus Cinelli just don't have that extra bit to raise them into the halcyon heights!
Dale