[CR]Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #834 - 20 msgs

(Example: Framebuilders:Alex Singer)

Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:24:48 -0700
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
From: "Joseph Bender-Zanoni" <jfbender@umich.edu>
Subject: [CR]Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #834 - 20 msgs

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CR

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Someone help this Bianchi (Chris Beyer) 2. Re: Someone help this Bianchi (Huemax@aol.com) 3. Re: Someone help this Bianchi (Hilary Stone) 4. Need a Campagnolo brake center pivot bolt... (Chuck Schmidt) 5. Re: Need a Campagnolo brake center pivot bolt... (Richard M Sachs) 6. Someone help this Bianchi (garth libre) 7. Re: Need a Campagnolo brake center pivot bolt... (Chuck Schmidt) 8. RE: Someone help this Bianchi (Mark Poore) 9. e-bay outing (David Blight) 10. Re: Someone help this Bianchi (nath) 11. Re; Regarding Delta brake performance (Jamie Swan) 12. Giant Apology: was Re: [CR]EBay Masi Fun and Games (Thomas R. Adams, Jr.) 13. Fwd: Hetchins (peter naiman) 14. Picture of EARLY Campy rear dropouts (John) 15. Re: Need a Campagnolo brake center pivot bolt... (Tom Dalton) 16. campy shifter on eBay (Aldo Ross) 17. Re: campy shifter on eBay (Lee Berg) 18. Masi Gran Criterium ? (Mark Poore) 19. Re: Masi Gran Criterium ? (Richard M Sachs) 20. Re: Masi Gran Criterium ? (Richard M Sachs)

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Message: 1 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:08:32 -0400 From: Chris Beyer <beyerc@mail.volvo.com> To: dbilenkey@sympatico.ca Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Someone help this Bianchi

My trigonometry is more than a little rusty, but wouldn't an 18" frame with a 32.5" standover translate to a bb height in the 15" range? Either this schmo doesn't know how to measure a frame, or it was meant for smaller wheels....................

Chris (used to be good at math, but them days is long gone) Beyer Bloomfield, NJ

David Bilenkey wrote:
> Interesting, anyone care to wager what this will go for? Or what it should
> go for? I've always wanted a Bianchi. Might be an interesting (perhaps
> expensive to kit out properly) project.
>
> David Bilenkey
> in sunny and cold Ottawa
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> > [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of
> > youngc@NetReach.Net
> > Sent: October 18, 2001 9:19 AM
> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: [CR]Someone help this Bianchi
> >
> >
> > Can someone help undress this waif-like Bianchi and get her into more
> > appropriate clothing?
> >
> > http://ebay.com/<blah>
> >
> > Charlie Young
> > Honeybrook, PA
>
> _______________________________________________

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Message: 2 From: Huemax@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:46:05 EDT Subject: Re: [CR]Someone help this Bianchi To: rchasteen@kc.rr.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, youngc@netreach.net

Hi, All members,

Looking at chainwheel diameter, rear wheel, and seat tube as 18", there is NO way you can see the diameter of rear wheel would be 700c (or close to 27").

I see this as 24" wheel bike, also see the H2O botle, they are HUGE!

KEN TODA, among camera things, so many people I know got sucked by ebay auction.

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Message: 3 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:03:46 +0100 Subject: Re: [CR]Someone help this Bianchi From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <Huemax@aol.com>, <rchasteen@kc.rr.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <youngc@netreach.net>

I don't think this can be a 24in wheeled bike Open 4CD rims and Conti 2000 tyres are not/were not available in this size. But I must admit to being mystified by this bike.

Regards

Hilary Stone


> Hi, All members,
>
> Looking at chainwheel diameter, rear wheel, and seat tube as 18", there is NO
> way you can see the diameter of rear wheel would be 700c (or close to 27").
>
> I see this as 24" wheel bike, also see the H2O botle, they are HUGE!
>
> KEN TODA, among camera things, so many people I know got sucked by ebay
> auction.
> _______________________________________________

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Message: 4 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:13:51 -0700 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Need a Campagnolo brake center pivot bolt...

I'm looking for a Campagnolo Record front brake center pivot bolt that is stamped with "BREV CAMP." This would be for the early side pull.

Has to be stamped with "BREV CAMP" and not "PATENT"!

Anyone out there have one for sale?

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, California

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Message: 5 To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:37:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [CR]Need a Campagnolo brake center pivot bolt... From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>

e-CHUCKIE 'brev.' means 'patent' in italian. why is this important?? e-RICHIE (insert smiley face_____)

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:13:51 -0700 Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> writes:
> I'm looking for a Campagnolo Record front brake center pivot bolt
> that
> is stamped with "BREV CAMP." This would be for the early side pull.
>
> Has to be stamped with "BREV CAMP" and not "PATENT"!
>
> Anyone out there have one for sale?
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, California
> _______________________________________________

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Message: 6 From: "garth libre" <rabbitman@mindspring.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:33:09 -0400 Subject: [CR]Someone help this Bianchi

A 32.5 inch standover sounds an awful lot like a 56 cm frame -- my size, = but it looks like a 54cm by the size of headtube. Also if this is a 60's = Bianchi, then even the Concour green leather seat is not original, but I = have to admit the Concour vintage seats of the early 80's are the = sexiest things ever designed for any bike. Not only is the shape sexy, = but the shape is a refrain of the Concour jet shape, so it's = historically significant. For the Concour seats alone, I find the bikes = of the late 70's to mid 80's the most beautiful and functional of all = classics to collect. It was a time of the aero shape, braze on = cleanliness, sleek unclunky stems, slant parralelograms, tapered allen- = head brake bolts,super kinesthetic Look designed pedals (never much = improved on), and the racing ideal 6 and 7 speed freewheels. The owner = of the now defunct Grove Cyclery told me that after the mid eighties, = there have been no better racing bikes built (with the possible = exception of downtube indexing). I agree.

One strange point: if the owner has so much disrespect for classic = bikes, then why does ask $50 extra for the original fork? Garth Libre

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Message: 7 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:36:09 -0700 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Need a Campagnolo brake center pivot bolt...

Richard M Sachs wrote:
>
> e-CHUCKIE
> 'brev.' means 'patent' in italian.
> why is this important??
> e-RICHIE (insert smiley face_____)

For my newly acquired 1973 Sammontana Masi you passed on.

Important? As far as world peace? As far as my piece of mind? As far as keeping things in equilibrium in the Universe? Don't know...

e-CHUCKIE

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Message: 8 From: "Mark Poore" <rauler47@hotmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]Someone help this Bianchi Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:48:20 -0400

Having looked closely at what I could see of the Bianchi here is what I think I saw. The wheels appear to be 700c. If you look at the water bottles, they are the large ones, they are about the length from the front skewer to the fork crown that I measured on my bike. The hand pump appear to be set in place by the use of a brazed on pump peg, although I have seen plastic pump pegs that would attach in that very spot and it is hard to say that it isn't on the bike, but I believe it might be more detectable if that were the case. If what appears to the rear skewer, that shinny dot, is in deed the skewer it looks as though it is just behind the line of the seat stays. This coupled with the rear tires proximity to the seat tube would give the chain stay a shorter length than what I am used to seeing on a bike of "66 vintage. The rear brake also looks to be a shorter reach than that of bikes in this era. Lastly, I don't see any, but again they could be there and not visible, any water bottle clamps. I don't remember seeing braze ons the early.

Now if the frame is indeed a '66 and is in great shape I believe it could go for $150-$200, that includes the $50 for the original fork,as a lot of great bikes are slipping through the cracks of ebay lately.

As far as the fellow being put in jail, that would be well and good as it is criminal what he did, but a sane person would not comment this type of crime there for I believe another institution for his confinement would be in order.

Mark, got warm enough to ride the new/old bike for 12 miles today, Poore

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Message: 9 From: "David Blight" <davidblight@rya-online.net> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:55:11 +0100 Subject: [CR]e-bay outing

E-bay outing. Sounds like a trip to the seaside doesn't it? I'm afraid = not. It's to say that I've put a few more items on ebay toinght = including a steel Campag seatpin in really good nick, a Campag Pista BB = and a nice Brooks B17 narrow under my Bikepacker name. Happy hunting. = Oh, by the way Dale, you know that very special bit you're looking = for...=20 =20 David =20

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Message: 10 From: "nath" <ferness261@voyager.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Someone help this Bianchi Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:35:48 -0500

I don't know my Bianchis that well, but it looks to me as if the current (ugly) front fork is larger than the original was, and that may be why the rear wheel looks smaller, and why the frame seems to slope up along what is probably a horizonal piece of pine. (I know some bikes have had a smaller, 24" front wheel with a 700c in the back, but this one looks as if it employs the smaller wheel in the back.)

But the camera angle probably has a lot to do with the goofy appearance.

I love all the little labels for things, too. I suppose they were readable on the orignal photo, but unless I'd read the description, I wouldn't know what most of them said.

What a shock to see this bike after drooling over the early 60s Peugeot PX-10. . . .

nath "i'd take celeste over chrome any day" dresser

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Message: 11 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:38:50 -0400 From: Jamie Swan <jswan@optonline.net> To: classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Re; Regarding Delta brake performance

Before you replace the brake levers on your Delta brakes in a quest for improved performance try this trick. Set up the cable very loose. You should be able to bottom the lever against the handle bar using just your index finger and thumb. The mechanism has a very radical change in ratio. If you set them up with the shoes too close to the rim you are not getting into the power phase. The other thing that makes Deltas much easier to live with is to mark the cable length with a sharpie, remove the cable, cut it to length, and then solder the last inch or so. I have a few customers that think I am some kind of wizard because I was able to make their Deltas stop when the last 10 pro shops couldn't. Jamie, I'll take dual pivots any day, Swan.

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Message: 12 From: "Thomas R. Adams, Jr." <KCTOMMY@msn.com> To: "Classic List" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Giant Apology: was Re: [CR]EBay Masi Fun and Games Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:59:20 -0500

=20 All right, I need to shut this thread down. The seller was list member = Tom Hanson, an excellent fellow who has sold me much good merchandise in = the past. I didn't recognize his ebay handle when the auction was cancel= led, so I shot off my big mouth instead of contacting Tom first. =20

It turns out that Tom had a $500 opening bid, but some glitch with eBay a= s he tried to revise his sale listing resulted in his reserve being cut w= ay down and his opening bid being 1 cent. Naturally, with his reserve co= rrupted, he cancelled the auction. Tom and I disagree with the practice = of using low bids as a supplement "watch" feature when we have no expecta= tion of winning the auction, which is Tom's right. He chose to express h= is feelings about that in his bid cancellation page, but explained how eB= ay had messed up his reserve price and opening bid amount in the body of = the auction listing, which I didn't read before I posted to the list. Th= e sound you just heard is my size 12 going deep into my oral cavity. =20

Tom I am deeply sorry that I posted without contacting you first, and wit= hout reading the entire auction listing. 10,000 apologies. =20

I would have apologized on the list sooner, but I apologized privately to= Tom and was waiting to hear his reply to see if he wanted to keep this g= oing in public. But as it's going on without either of us, I felt I need= ed to get the truth out. =20

Also, if someone wants a wickedly beautiful black lugged steel Masi for a= reasonable price, drop Tom a line. I wish I had the money to take it of= f his hands. It's early 90's so a bit off topic, but any lugged steel bi= ke needs to go to a good home.

Tom Adams, blushing purple, in Kansas City


----- Original Message -----
From: J.Dunn
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:51 PM
To: "Thomas R.Adams", Jr.
Subject: Re: [CR]EBay Masi Fun and Games =20


Tom, this guy started the bid at .01. This means that the bid increment = is a nickel. So if the current bid is 10.00 and you bid 999.00 (1.00 below = his reserve) the bid could show up as 10.05. Right? Even if the was curren= t bid was 300.00 (I wonder if that would insult him?) it would show up as 300.05 I use low bids to keep track of things all the time, why should t= he seller give a damn? The more bids there are the hotter his item looks.

Anyone who starts an auction at a penny with a thousand dollar reserve is= 1) stupid 2) ignorant of the way the bidding works 3)an asshole. Since he has over 300 completed transactions , we can pretty confidently rule out ignorant= , so, I guess, that leaves only number one or number three. ;-)

His official reason is that there was an error in the minimum bid or rese= rve amount, so my guess is that he just screwed up and took it out on his bidders. Result? Just what he deserved. Ebay fees and no sale.

John Dunn in Boise


----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas R.Adams", "Jr."
To: Classic List
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:29 PM
Subject: [CR]EBay Masi Fun and Games


Here's a new one to me. The seller cancelled an auction for a Masi becau= se bids of a few dollars when the reserve is $1,000 were an "insult". I gue= ss he didn't realize that some of us use low bids to keep track of items instead of watch it now. Did I do something wrong?

http://ebay.com/<blah>

Tom Adams, Kansas City

_______________________________________________

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Message: 13 From: "peter naiman" <hetchinspete@hotmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, cycles@breathemail.net Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:43:20 Subject: [CR]Fwd: Hetchins

to: David Miller, I'm forwarding this attachment to you from a fellow member of the CR group. I'm not a lawyer, but do not understand the dispute over the Hetchins name and trademark. I personally support you in your efforts to keep all rights to the Hetchins Cycles. The lineage should not be of any doubt. I cannot speak for fellow members of our group, but do hope other share my support for you. Peter Naiman Boston, Mass


>From: cnighbor <UserID@pacbell.net>
>To: Bob Freeman <ebbikes@aol.com>, Paul Spencer <hetchins@madasafish.com>,
>peter naiman <hetchinspete@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Hetchins
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:28:49 -0700
>
>Story getting longer. Charles
>http://www.flashq.de/hetch21.htm

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Message: 14 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 07:21:31 -0700 From: "John" <velostuf@qwest.net> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Reply-To: velostuf@qwest.net Organization: Velostuf Subject: [CR]Picture of EARLY Campy rear dropouts

I was fortunate to acquire a pair of very early Campy rear dropouts recently. Here's a picture.

http://www.velostuf.com/campaearlydropouts.jpg

Note:

1) the open "C", 2) the "BREVo" (this is a contraction of "BREVatattO" I think) 3) the large diameter adjusting screws 4) the lack of knobs on the end of the screws- there's a slot for a screwdriver instead

Also, I have a used Sturmey Archer 1954 ASC hub for sale on eBay,

http://ebay.com/<blah>

John Barron Minneapolis http://www.velostuf.com

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Message: 15 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 06:15:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Dalton <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [CR]Need a Campagnolo brake center pivot bolt... To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

"Brev."??? "Patent"??? I could put everone's concerns to rest with a bolt that has no markings. Whadda Ya say, Chuck? I'll let ya have it for any incorrect "patent" bolt you may have lying around, plus $10 ;-)


--- Chuck Schmidt wrote:


> Richard M Sachs wrote:
> >
> > e-CHUCKIE
> > 'brev.' means 'patent' in italian.
> > why is this important??
> > e-RICHIE (insert smiley face_____)
>
>
> For my newly acquired 1973 Sammontana Masi you
> passed on.
>
> Important? As far as world peace? As far as my
> piece of mind? As far
> as keeping things in equilibrium in the Universe?
> Don't know...
>
> e-CHUCKIE
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

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Message: 16 From: "Aldo Ross" <swampmtn@siscom.net> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:15:24 -0400 Subject: [CR]campy shifter on eBay

Here's a Campy shifter I've never seen before:

http://ebay.com/<blah>

What did this go with? Velox, perchance???

Aldo Ross Monroe, Ohio

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Message: 17 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 07:27:30 -0700 From: Lee Berg <lberg@ventoux.com> To: Aldo Ross <swampmtn@siscom.net> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]campy shifter on eBay

Goes with the GT (it, too, is oversize, with red on it).

Lee Berg Palo Alto

Aldo Ross wrote:
>
> Here's a Campy shifter I've never seen before:
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> What did this go with? Velox, perchance???
>
> Aldo Ross
> Monroe, Ohio

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Message: 18 From: "Mark Poore" <rauler47@hotmail.com> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:56:23 -0400 Subject: [CR]Masi Gran Criterium ?

I have a question for those Masi aficionados. This Masi on ebay is a Gran Criterium. If my memory serves me correctly, and it hasn't done well in recent years, the Gran Criterium had Criterium geometry and this one appears to have more of a European road geometry. Would love to understand the Masi geometry differences.

http://ebay.com/<blah> owTutorial=0&ed=1003717902&indexURL=0&rd=1

Mark, in sunny, cool and some patches of snow left WV, Poore

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Message: 19 To: rauler47@hotmail.com Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:43:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [CR]Masi Gran Criterium ? From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>

without even looking... the gran criterium NEVER had 'criterium' geometry. the model had its name way before the 70s american pre-occupation with 'criterium geometry'. (gag me, huh!) even so, the criterium, as a racing event as we know it, does not exist in europe. at least it didn't in the late sixties/early seventies when the masi gran criterium gained its notoriety. e-RICHIE masi maniac <http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1578244&a=12204870&f=0&sp=1 &showall=true>

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:56:23 -0400 "Mark Poore" <rauler47@hotmail.com> writes:
> I have a question for those Masi aficionados. This Masi on ebay is a
> Gran
> Criterium. If my memory serves me correctly, and it hasn't done well
> in
> recent years, the Gran Criterium had Criterium geometry and this one
> appears
> to have more of a European road geometry. Would love to understand
> the Masi
> geometry differences.
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah> &showTutorial=0&ed=1003717902&indexURL=0&rd=1
>
> Mark, in sunny, cool and some patches of snow left WV, Poore
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous

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Message: 20 To: rauler47@hotmail.com Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:51:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [CR]Masi Gran Criterium ? From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>

and p.s. the ebay-ed masi doesn't have a flat fork crown. it has a cinelli mr investment cast crown sized for imperial dimension reynolds blade. this is a late 70s or early 80s calimasi. to borrow a phrase from the hetchins agenda i looked at last night courtesy of peter naiman's link to the unofficial hetchin's site, '' i'd rather have the wine than have the label ''. e-RICHIE http://www.richardsachs.com

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:56:23 -0400 "Mark Poore" <rauler47@hotmail.com> writes:
> I have a question for those Masi aficionados. This Masi on ebay is a
> Gran
> Criterium. If my memory serves me correctly, and it hasn't done well
> in
> recent years, the Gran Criterium had Criterium geometry and this one
> appears
> to have more of a European road geometry. Would love to understand
> the Masi
> geometry differences.
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah> &showTutorial=0&ed=1003717902&indexURL=0&rd=1
>
> Mark, in sunny, cool and some patches of snow left WV, Poore
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous

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