Re: [CR]Hey is this a Rally or a NR?

(Example: History:Ted Ernst)

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:31:40 +0000
Subject: Re: [CR]Hey is this a Rally or a NR?
From: "Hilary Stone" <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011127232705.00b92dd0@mail.earthlink.net>


I quite agree that caution is necessary but I know that the derailleur I have is not a deliberate forgery. This one of mine came on an old timer's bike which had not been touched in ten or more years. In England the market in old bicycle parts is much smaller and whilst there have been frame forgeries - this can be quite profitable as some English framebuilders charge very little there simply is no money to be made from forging old parts. People who want to gain notoriety like you suggest do not exist within the English collectors. Don't forget that David Benson in NZ has one himself, Chuck Schmidt has seen a couple of examples and there is the NOS one in England, all the same. Tony Beckett who saw the NOS one in Britain is not just another bike collector. He is one of the leading experts on Campagnolo in England and is the Veteran-Cycle Club's Campagnolo Marque Enthusiast and knows what he is seeing and looking at. These derailleurs would tend to be all different if they they had not come from the same source and would have used other combinations of parts. Why for example use the GS pivot bolts? The NR ones are far prettier. Regards

Hilary

Marc Boral wrote:
>
> My fear is that David's ex-colleague might be remembering the legitimate GS
> Rally derailleur that was avail. in the'80s. Just because there is a NOS
> version in a box doesn't lend any support to the theory that this "rare"
> derailleur was a legitimate Campagnolo model. Hell, I have enough NOS
> components and NOS small parts to make thirty of these "rare" derailleurs,
> including the Rally red box. So just because there are a few examples out
> there, don't jump to conclusions. I even know of a few people that would
> do something like this, just to gain some sort of notoriety. So be
> careful when using phrases like "the evidence is now pointing to". Your
> intention to get your merchandise sold on Ebay MAY be contributing to
> misinformation for concerned enthusiasts.
>
> Marc Boral
> Long Beach, CA
>
> At 11:23 PM 11/27/2001, Hilary Stone wrote:
>> I think the evidence is now pointing to an early 80s production by
>> Campagnolo. In England we have seen the evidence of a NOS one in a box which
>> was seen earlier this year and referred to by Tony Beckett in his earlier
>> posting. What we must not forget is the middle version of the Rally produced
>> which used the same hexagonal GS bolts. Perhaps the Nuovo Record GT long arm
>> derailleurs were a pre-run for the version 2 Rally derailleur? I will add
>> this to the description on Ebay.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Hilary Stone, Bristol
>>
>>
>> David Benson wrote:
>>> Well, what can I say?
>>> Your "opinion" varies with my friends recollection of a situation that
>>> he was personally involved with.
>>> His "claim" is that he remembers receiving these deraillers from Campy,
>>> sometime in th early '80's. Seems pretty straightforwatd to me.
>>> DB
>>> Ak, NZ
>>>
>>> Marc Boral wrote:
>>>> Well, I guess all I can say is my opinion is different from his. So,
>>>> until I see printed documentation referring to this "rare" derailleur,
>>>> my opinion hasn't changed. There are just too many red flags
>>>> indicating "Modified by Consumer". It would be interesting to hear
>>>> any more details from him to support his claim.
>>>>
>>>> Marc Boral
>>>> Long Beach, CA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 10:18 PM 11/27/2001, David Benson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marc,
>>>>> Until 1987 my ex-colleague was the Campagnolo buyer for the NZ
>>>>> importer. They were an indent order for a customer whos specialised
>>>>> in touring bikes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Auckland, NZ
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Boral wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My thesis was not "that these derailleurs were made up by
>>>>>> distributors". I was suggesting that a private individual was
>>>>>> responsible, possibly because large quantities of NOS GS and Rally
>>>>>> small parts are still available from some distributors. That means
>>>>>> it is easy for people to obtain the parts, fairly inexpensively, to
>>>>>> make the example on Ebay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who is your ex-colleague, and what gives you so much confidence in
>>>>>> his opinion? I don't mean to be condescending, but I feel very
>>>>>> confident in my assessment.