Ritchie:
I cant place the reference. I think its from Dune or something, and of course it also refers to Reynolds certification program. My impression is that the program was intended to certify that the builder was not a complete hack and to boost the 753 mystique.
I have to take issue, at least to a degree, on your assertion that 531 and 753 were materials and not tubesets. Of course the 531 and 753 designations do represent the ratios of alloying elements (Mn/Mo/Cr?) in the two different steels, but other appended information indicated specific tubesets. 531SL, 531C, 531CS, 531 Speed Stream, 753R Were these not all specific tubes sets with distinct gauges and, in some cases, distinct profiles? I have no doubt that 531 was available in a zillion configurations, and that builders would buy downtubes, top-tubes etc. with the specific dimensions they wanted, thus making designations like 531C and 531CS irrelevant. However, I find it difficult to imagine that TI Reynolds could offer an exotic heat-treated tubeset like 753 in more than a couple of gauges and the standard set of external dimensions, at least during the classic period. I suspect that the original 753 was a specific superlight tubeset and the later 753R was a second, more robust tubeset, and there was little else in that product line until the later OS sets.
Also, for what its worth, the Reynolds numbering system definitely broke down with the introduction of 653, which was not a specific alloy, and was a specific tubeset. My hazy recollection was that the stays were from the 753R set, and the main triangle was 531C. Incidentally, Gerald ODonovan basically scoffed at me when I asked about the 653 tubeset, suggesting that a rider of my size (61/165lbs, back then) belonged on 753. Given that he was instrumental in developing 753, and that I already owned a 653 bike, I took it all with a grain of salt or a teeny tiny grain of steel.
Tom Dalton
> tom, jack, fred, et al...
> 753 was a MATERIAL, not a tube set. The material
> was produced in many guages in all the
> typical-of-the-era
> diameters and shapes. The same was/is true for 531.
> (And Tange Prestige, for that matter). Most
> consumers
> would be familiar with the products from all the old
> ads showing
> a box 'o pipes with the Reynolds logos all over it.
> Few builders
> actually bought the pre-packaged sets as shown in
> the ads
> and catalog tear sheets. Most bought their tubes in
> the guages
> appropriate for the job at hand. Thus, 753 'could'
> be heavier
> than 531, depending on the choices made. The
> material's
> characteristics were different and you didn't have
> to have
> ''The Knowledge''*** unless you were buying the 753
> pipes.
> The lightest, thinnest 531 was similar to its 753
> counterpart.
> Rule Brittania!!
> e-RICHIE, shopworn
> ***anyone get the reference?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:21:57 -0800 (PST) Tom Dalton
> <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com> writes:
> > Half a dozen frame builders will correct me after
> I
> > say this but...
> >
> > The original 753 was a very thin gauge tubeset
> that
> > took advantage of the heat treated alloy's high
> yield
> > and tensile strengths to "get away with" very thin
> > walled tubes. Since the stiffness (modulus?) of
> steel
> > tubes doesn't change with different alloys, the
> > super-thin early 753 built up into pretty flexy
> > frames. 753R was introduced with a bit of extra
> meat
> > and built into frames that were closer in
> stiffness
> > and weight to ordinary 531 frames. I think the
> 753
> > tubes were a touch lighter than 531C, and
> supposedly
> > they could be built into very lively framesets.
> >
> > Tom Dalton
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Jack Bissell <jackbissell@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > My recently acquired 753R Peugeot frame has
> chrome
> > > on the stays. Isn't that
> > > considered a no-no by Reynolds? I've seen chrome
> on
> > > the very-similar 753 "z"
> > > team bikes as well.
> > >
> > > Also, what is 753R? This frame weighs 1/4 lb
> less
> > > than my TI-Raleigh 753.
> > >
> > > Jack "mention team Raleighs and noone will
> notice
> > > I'm off topic by 3 years "
> > > Bissell
> > > Tucson, Az-- crisp, clear 50s
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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