I'm not sure what the question is here... 531 was one material. 753 was another. One was chrome/mangy and the other was slightly different and heat treated as well. 653 main tubes were simply cold-worked 531 tubes. A 653 <set> was made up of these main tubes along with stays and forks from the 753 range. Regardless, few builders actually bought a pre-boxed set of any of this stuff. They (we) ordered these top tubes and those seatstays along with these here fork blades, and from our own inventory, created a frame set. 531C and Speedstream came way later and those tubes, too, were available in singles. 531C was simply a pre-boxed set of Reynold's own mix of 531 in specific shapes and guages. Re: the 531SL...this was a lighter weight, pre-boxed set of tubes that preceeded 653 pre-boxed sets. Where do we go from here? e-RICHIE (I'm going to start drinking coffee again)
On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:06:32 -0800 (PST) Tom Dalton
<tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com> writes:
> Ritchie:
>
> I cant place the reference. I think its from Dune
> or something, and of course it also refers to
> Reynolds certification program. My impression is
> that the program was intended to certify that the
> builder was not a complete hack and to boost the 753
> mystique.
>
> I have to take issue, at least to a degree, on your
> assertion that 531 and 753 were materials and not
> tubesets. Of course the 531 and 753 designations do
> represent the ratios of alloying elements (Mn/Mo/Cr?)
> in the two different steels, but other appended
> information indicated specific tubesets. 531SL, 531C,
> 531CS, 531 Speed Stream, 753R
Were these not all
> specific tubes sets with distinct gauges and, in some
> cases, distinct profiles? I have no doubt that 531
> was available in a zillion configurations, and that
> builders would buy downtubes, top-tubes etc. with the
> specific dimensions they wanted, thus making
> designations like 531C and 531CS irrelevant.
> However, I find it difficult to imagine that TI
> Reynolds could offer an exotic heat-treated tubeset
> like 753 in more than a couple of gauges and the
> standard set of external dimensions, at least during
> the classic period. I suspect that the original 753
> was a specific superlight tubeset and the later 753R
> was a second, more robust tubeset, and there was
> little else in that product line until the later OS
> sets.
>
> Also, for what its worth, the Reynolds numbering
> system definitely broke down with the introduction of
> 653, which was not a specific alloy, and was a
> specific tubeset. My hazy recollection was that the
> stays were from the 753R set, and the main triangle
> was 531C. Incidentally, Gerald ODonovan basically
> scoffed at me when I asked about the 653 tubeset,
> suggesting that a rider of my size (61/165lbs, back
> then) belonged on 753. Given that he was instrumental
> in developing 753, and that I already owned a 653
> bike, I took it all with a grain of salt
or a teeny
> tiny grain of steel.
>
> Tom Dalton
>
> --- Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com> wrote:
> > tom, jack, fred, et al...
> > 753 was a MATERIAL, not a tube set. The material
> > was produced in many guages in all the
> > typical-of-the-era
> > diameters and shapes. The same was/is true for 531.
> > (And Tange Prestige, for that matter). Most
> > consumers
> > would be familiar with the products from all the old
> > ads showing
> > a box 'o pipes with the Reynolds logos all over it.
> > Few builders
> > actually bought the pre-packaged sets as shown in
> > the ads
> > and catalog tear sheets. Most bought their tubes in
> > the guages
> > appropriate for the job at hand. Thus, 753 'could'
> > be heavier
> > than 531, depending on the choices made. The
> > material's
> > characteristics were different and you didn't have
> > to have
> > ''The Knowledge''*** unless you were buying the 753
> > pipes.
> > The lightest, thinnest 531 was similar to its 753
> > counterpart.
> > Rule Brittania!!
> > e-RICHIE, shopworn
> > ***anyone get the reference?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:21:57 -0800 (PST) Tom Dalton
> > <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com> writes:
> > > Half a dozen frame builders will correct me after
> > I
> > > say this but...
> > >
> > > The original 753 was a very thin gauge tubeset
> > that
> > > took advantage of the heat treated alloy's high
> > yield
> > > and tensile strengths to "get away with" very thin
> > > walled tubes. Since the stiffness (modulus?) of
> > steel
> > > tubes doesn't change with different alloys, the
> > > super-thin early 753 built up into pretty flexy
> > > frames. 753R was introduced with a bit of extra
> > meat
> > > and built into frames that were closer in
> > stiffness
> > > and weight to ordinary 531 frames. I think the
> > 753
> > > tubes were a touch lighter than 531C, and
> > supposedly
> > > they could be built into very lively framesets.
> > >
> > > Tom Dalton
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Jack Bissell <jackbissell@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > My recently acquired 753R Peugeot frame has
> > chrome
> > > > on the stays. Isn't that
> > > > considered a no-no by Reynolds? I've seen chrome
> > on
> > > > the very-similar 753 "z"
> > > > team bikes as well.
> > > >
> > > > Also, what is 753R? This frame weighs 1/4 lb
> > less
> > > > than my TI-Raleigh 753.
> > > >
> > > > Jack "mention team Raleighs and noone will
> > notice
> > > > I'm off topic by 3 years "
> > > > Bissell
> > > > Tucson, Az-- crisp, clear 50s
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
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