I just bought a LOOK KG86 Hinault frameset and I have a couple of questions. I'm looking to make the bike correct for the period rather than a exact restoration. The frame was made in 1989-90. I have a Dura Ace 7400 group I'm using for the components. 1. Bar tape- Was cork around in 1989 or did everyone use cloth tape or ribbon? 2. Wheels- would MA40's be appropriate? What other clincher wheels were used on high end road bikes? Thanks, Dave
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org] Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 2:04 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #953 - 12 msgs
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Today's Topics:
1. Info on Romic/R. Gasorowski (Richard Jones-Bamman) 2. Re: New record/Japanese buyer's trend (Huemax@aol.com) 3. Peugeot UO8 (Kevin MacAfee) 4. Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration... (OROBOYZ@aol.com) 5. Re: Info on Romic/R. Gasorowski (Jerry & Liz Moos) 6. Re: VINER Question...... (Rick Chasteen) 7. Re: VINER (OROBOYZ@aol.com) 8. Know this is not a topic but I have gotten an infected attachement (Wornoutguy@aol.com) 9. Re: Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration... (Marc Boral) 10. Re: Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration... (dave bohm) 11. Re: Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration... (OROBOYZ@aol.com) 12. Re: Info on Romic/R. Gasorowski (dave bohm)
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Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 10:37:52 -0500 From: Richard Jones-Bamman <banjers@mac.com> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Info on Romic/R. Gasorowski
Does anyone out there have information about the late Ray Gasorowski and/or Romic frames? I "inherited" a rather unusual Romic road frame in Sept. and am just know looking it over as a likely winter project. I remember seeing some Romic track frames in the early '80s out in California, but that's the sum of my experience with this brand. The frame in question is quite nice: 531 with longpoint lugs and wrap-around seatstays; paint is only so-so, but appears original. This one has been passed around among friends for several years, but no one seems to know much about it. If this maker lies outside the purview of this list, I apologize, but it has a "classic" look, at least. Thanks in advance for any information or pointers to follow up.
Richard Jones-Bamman Storrs, CT (where it was 70 degrees yesterday!)
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Message: 2 From: Huemax@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:01:45 EST Subject: Re: [CR]New record/Japanese buyer's trend To: questor@cinci.rr.com, OROBOYZ@aol.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Congratulations, Steve,
And, hi to all members,
I have been studying Japanese buyers/collector's market trend, but I am surprised at recent ebay auctions.
1) They used to be very particular about NOS condition. Like new/Mint condition were No. 1 requirement, however; recently they are accepting some compromise.
2) There are at least 7 Japanese bidders in 17 bids placed, they had (maybe a long time ago) their group/community respact each other, therefore; they tried not to go into bidding war. But nowdays, no respect, no talks to others, growing in " individualism".
3) There are about 25 Japanese bidders ID'd, who have been bidding in ebay in the US, and perhaps 7 to 8 new ones are comming in the market. The numbers is growing!
Well, all these factors are great for seller, but BAD news for domestic buyer/collectors.
It is a nice day (but a bit windy), l've got go to ride.
KEN TODA, over the hill rider in North Carolina, orignally from Osaka, Japan.
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Message: 3 From: "Kevin MacAfee" <kmacafee@isd.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 10:08:27 -0600 Subject: [CR]Peugeot UO8
Several list members responded about the UO8 last night but there was a = virus attached to the email so it was deleted. If you sent an email and = I have not yet responded, try sending it again but please check before = sending.
Thanks
Kevin MacAfee St. Paul
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Message: 4 From: OROBOYZ@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:51:41 EST To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration...
I have about used up a tool, if you can call it that, that is just great for
many cleaning, polishing jobs on old bikes. Problem is, I do not know where to find another.. It is a German made (I am pretty sure) rubbery dense sponge-like block of very fine abrasive material. It is not like the foam thing with abrasive just on the outside, this gizmo has its abrasive stuff al-the-way-through. The original block was maybe 1 1/2" x 3/4" x 4 " . Gray in color.
The great benefit of these blocks is that they impart, through scrubbing, a good looking satin, low gloss finish, rather like the Campy anodizing on some of their parts. Or, you can follow up this treatment with Simichrome or whatever, and go straight up to full polish...
Anyone recognize this tool and know where to buy more?
Thanks in advance,
Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina
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Message: 5 From: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: "Richard Jones-Bamman" <banjers@mac.com>, <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Info on Romic/R. Gasorowski Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 05:31:39 -0600
I have two Romics, a 24" wheel junior road bike, and a custom track bike. These were built by Ray Gasorowski, a custom builder in Houston, TX, in the mid 80's. He operated out of a warehouse type building in a section of North Houston (I forget the exact location) which housed a small office and the shop. His wife helped with the paperwork, and a couple of young guys helped in the shop, but I believe Ray built every frame himself, though he may have allowed his helpers to do a task or two on each frame. He also did his own painting, the only thing he contracted out was chroming. Ray was in his 50's in the mid 80's I believe. One of the young guys may have been his son. I don't know when he began building under the Romic name, but by the early 80's he was well known in the Houston. To my knowledge, he was the only custom builder to ever produce any significant number of frames in Houston, this not being a hotbed of road cycling (the Texas road scene centers more around Austin).
I've heard that Ray had built bikes for Schwinn, probably Paramounts, before opening his own shop, but I can't confirm this, nor do I know the significance of the name "Romic". The typical Romic decal was the word "Romic" inside a circle. I always thought the circle suggested an olympic ring, but I don't know why. It was formed of small teardrop-shaped pieces, which may have been flower petals, so perhaps it was a flower instead. Ray was not one inclined to discuss such things, rather an old-school, no nonsense guy who believed in sensible design and solid clean workmanship, with graphics and symbolic significance a minor concern. Despite this, he was an excellent painter, who used almost exclusively Imron. He looked at paint much like lugwork, clean, solid, and well finished, rather than decorative. He could do more elaborate paint schemes if you insisted, just as he would provide chrome on request, but you alway got the impression that he considered these requests a bit frivolous. The junior road frame I bought for my daughter about 1982 is typical Romic, solid royal blue Imron, simple but clean lugwork, no chrome, the simple typical Romic decals. It is Columbus Aelle. I got this at a discount, as another customer had ordered it but never paid or taken delivery. I believe for a while Ray made some "production" models that a few Houston or other Texas shops stocked, but I think more of his business was custom orders. My track bike is such a custom order, full 531, burgundy Imron with silver panels, chromed rear dropouts and full chromed fork, built about 1984. After considerable effort, I persuaded Ray to apply the more elaborate "Team Eagle" decals. These had prevoiusly been used only on a "Team Eagle" road frame which Ray provided to a local club he sponsorsed (the sponsorhip might have been limited to providing frames). These had decals featuring a Polish eagle, ala the coat of arms of the Polish kings, Ray of course being of Poilsh decent. I belive he eventually offered the Team Eagle road model to the public, but my track bike was the first track machine to have these graphics, and maybe even the only one.
I remember after we finally established the color, decals, and chrome on the order, he said something mildly sarcastic like, "Now that we have the graphics established, we can talk about the bike." A no nonsense guy for sure. He was no less old-school about geometry, and initially resisted making the fork rake short enough to produce toe clip overlap, even though this had become standard track design by the mid-80's. I pointed out that even a couple of my road bikes had toe clip overlap (though not built by him of course) and he finally relented. He later repainted a LeJeune and an Austro-Daimler for me, and did an excellent job. I persuaded him to mask off the original decals on the A-D to save them, and he did it at only a small additional charge, though he probably thought it silly. I think Ray died a few yeras back, perhap in the mid 90's. There seem to have been some Romics produced after his death, but they may have been lugless or even TIGed, and lower quality than the stuff Ray built. One story I heard was his son was involved for a while, but then the Romic name passed to unrelated parties before production stopped. Since I've now returned to Houston after an absence of nearly 10 years, maybe I can learn a bit more about this.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
> Does anyone out there have information about the late Ray Gasorowski
and/or
> Romic frames? I "inherited" a rather unusual Romic road frame in Sept.
and
> am just know looking it over as a likely winter project. I remember
seeing
> some Romic track frames in the early '80s out in California, but that's
the
> sum of my experience with this brand. The frame in question is quite
nice:
> 531 with longpoint lugs and wrap-around seatstays; paint is only so-so,
but
> appears original. This one has been passed around among friends for
several
> years, but no one seems to know much about it. If this maker lies outside
> the purview of this list, I apologize, but it has a "classic" look, at
> least. Thanks in advance for any information or pointers to follow up.
>
> Richard Jones-Bamman
> Storrs, CT (where it was 70 degrees yesterday!)
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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Message: 6 From: "Rick Chasteen" <rchasteen@kc.rr.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]VINER Question...... Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:39:09 -0600
Chuck:
I have 2 Viners. One I bought new in 1983 or '84 (a Stella Pro), raced and crashed heavily and a second frameset I bought off eBay 2 years ago. I haven't yet built the second.
They had a reputation as being cheap raceware during the period you mention but both of mine seem to be nicely put together. The paint colors were cool, also: bass boat metal flake orange, electric blue, champagne, and a bright red. I stripped and repainted the first one and the lugwork and brazing looked great to me. The second has been repainted by Mohr (?) in Tennessee but seems to as well assembled, if not better.
The ride and handling are first class, despite the upright geometry. Mine was fairly stable in a straight line but loved to turn.
Gus Betat imported them, I believe, but I don't know who built them.
Are you sure yours is 531? I thought they were all made of Columbus SL with Campagnolo dropouts front and rear and lugs with cool little star (stella) cut outs.
I think these frames were way under rated, although they could have been constructed by several different builders over the years with different levels of expertise and quality.
Rick Chasteen, Kansas City
> Good Day All,
>
> I recently came into possession of a Viner Pro, which I figure to be late
> 70's/early 80's. Full 531 (a bit unusual for an Italian frame) and
> reasonably nice lugwork.
>
> Does anyone know the history of Viner? Who was/were the builder(s)? Any
> original decals still available?
>
> Thanks for the assistance.............
>
> Chuck Brooks
> Malta, NY
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Message: 7 From: OROBOYZ@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:47:11 EST Subject: Re: [CR] VINER To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In a message dated 12/2/01 10:18:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, DTSHIFTER@aol.com writes:
<< Does anyone know the history of Viner? Who was/were the builder(s)? Any original decals still available? >>
Not much history, but they were imported fairly vigorously by Gus Betat Imports in New Orleans, which at one time was an important source for all the cool stuff, Campagnolo, etc. There were a number of models at different price levels , with the top of the line model called the "Stella" with cool star cutouts in lugs etc. Seems like Viner may be still in biz with the usual boring, anonymous tig welded aluminum frames... Yes, here they are:
They might respond to a polite request for replacement decals...
Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina
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Message: 8 From: Wornoutguy@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:16:48 EST To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Know this is not a topic but I have gotten an infected attachement
I tried to open it and it disappeared came from Stephen Sitz I got directions on how to get it out of my system I hope it worked Don't open any files from wornoutguy or sadjmhd with attachments
Sam DiBartolomeo
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Message: 9 Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 11:34:16 -0800 To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org From: Marc Boral <mbikealive@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [CR]Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration...
Dale,
I believe the original product you speak of is the "Wonderbar". It is an abrasive rubber block that comes in 3 grits. There are lots of other brands on the market now. They can be found at some of the high-end woodworking/tools mail order houses, and I'm sure lots of other places. Here are a couple of sources I know of:
1) Klingspor's Woodworking Shop 800 228-0000 http://www.woodworkingshop.com 2) Bride City Tool Works 800 253-3332 http://www.bridgecitytools.com
Here's some other sources that I think might also carry that product:
1) Woodworkers Supply 800 645-9292 no website listed 2) Grizzly Industrial 800 523-4777 http://www.grizzly.com
Great product by the way. I use it too.
Marc Boral Long Beach, CA
At 12:51 PM 12/2/2001 -0500, OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:
>I have about used up a tool, if you can call it that, that is just great
for
>many cleaning, polishing jobs on old bikes. Problem is, I do not know where
>to find another.. It is a German made (I am pretty sure) rubbery dense
>sponge-like block of very fine abrasive material. It is not like the foam
>thing with abrasive just on the outside, this gizmo has its abrasive stuff
>al-the-way-through.
>The original block was maybe 1 1/2" x 3/4" x 4 " . Gray in color.
>
>The great benefit of these blocks is that they impart, through scrubbing, a
>good looking satin, low gloss finish, rather like the Campy anodizing on
some
>of their parts. Or, you can follow up this treatment with Simichrome or
>whatever, and go straight up to full polish...
>
>Anyone recognize this tool and know where to buy more?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Dale Brown
>Greensboro, North Carolina
>_______________________________________________
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Message: 10 From: "dave bohm" <davebohm@home.com> To: <OROBOYZ@aol.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration... Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:09:42 -0700
I do not know exactly what you speak of but you may be referring to = rubberized abrasive commonly known as Cratex. They come in all sorts of = sizes and grits some up to 2500 grit. Basically they are rubber with the = abrasive infused throughout. There are also abrasive blocks used with water that have grits to 3000 = made by the Japanese. Industrial Scotch brite pads may also work. They = differ from the scotchbrite that we use to do the dishes in that they = have abrasive imbedded in them and household does not. They also come = in a wide assortment of grits, some extremely fine. Write me if you = need suppliers of any of these.
Dave Bohm Bohemian Bicycles ----- Original Message -----=20 From: OROBOYZ@aol.com=20 To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org=20 Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 10:51 AM Subject: [CR]Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration...
I have about used up a tool, if you can call it that, that is just = great for=20 many cleaning, polishing jobs on old bikes. Problem is, I do not know = where=20 to find another.. It is a German made (I am pretty sure) rubbery dense =
sponge-like block of very fine abrasive material. It is not like the = foam=20 thing with abrasive just on the outside, this gizmo has its abrasive = stuff=20 al-the-way-through. The original block was maybe 1 1/2" x 3/4" x 4 " . Gray in color.
The great benefit of these blocks is that they impart, through = scrubbing, a=20 good looking satin, low gloss finish, rather like the Campy anodizing = on some=20 of their parts. Or, you can follow up this treatment with Simichrome = or=20 whatever, and go straight up to full polish...=20
Anyone recognize this tool and know where to buy more?
Thanks in advance,
Dale Brown
Greensboro, North Carolina=20
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Classicrendezvous mailing list
Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
http://www.bikelist.org/
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Message: 11 From: OROBOYZ@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:40:09 EST Subject: Re: [CR]Looking for a great tool(?) used for restoration... To: mbikealive@earthlink.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Thanks Marc! You ARE the CR official metal polishing expert!!
Dale Brown Greensboro, NC
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Message: 12 From: "dave bohm" <davebohm@home.com> To: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>, "Richard Jones-Bamman" <banjers@mac.com>, <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Info on Romic/R. Gasorowski Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:14:21 -0700
I did get a call from his wife yesterday. Seems like her son is looking = for a pair of Nervex lugs. She found it kind of unfathomable that they = were collectable at this point. The sons are still building, how much = I don't know.
Dave Bohm Bohemian
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest