------------------------------------------ Lets not forget about the accomplishments of Sir Alex Moulton, and the problems caused by the Suez crisis.
Jim Salzlein
Cape May , New Jersey ------------------------------------------
>From: "Moos, Jerry"
>To: "'classicrendezvous@bikelist.org'"
>Subject: FW: [CR]American framebuilders rule?
>Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:36:38 -0400
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Moos, Jerry
>Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:01 PM
>To: 'Andy@ADSmith.org.uk'
>Subject: RE: [CR]American framebuilders rule?
>
>
>I agree that petrol is not a valid indicator of cost of living. The reason
>petrol is so expensive in UK and Europe is that it has been massively taxed
>for decades. While some European politicans and environmentalists now
>defend the high taxes on environmental grounds, the original intent was to
>discourage consumption of a comodity of which Europe had almost no
>production west of Romania (Russia and other former Soviet republics along
>with Romania produced nearly all of the oil in Europe at the time). The
>high taxes thus reduced the outflow of cash to foreign nations for oil
>purchases. The taxes had become a social fixture decades before oil was
>found in the North Sea. Traditional oil producers like the US, Venezuela,
>and Saudi Arabia have much lower taxes on petroleum as they have no desire
>to discourage a domestic industry. Currently, state and federal taxes on
>gasoline in most US states is around 40¢ to 50¢ per gallon, or about 1/3 the
>total price. I imagine most Americans have no desire to pay higher gasoline
>taxes, and consider that quite enough. The higher taxes on petrol in Europe
>and UK have historically had some originally unintended side effects, like
>giving Europe the lead in small economical cars, which later came into vogue
>for a time in the US market. Also, in case Dale is wondering what this has
>to do with classic bicycles, high fuel taxes encouraged bicycle use in
>Europe, while inexpensive cars and fuel contributed to the long decline in
>grassroots US cycling and in the sport which had produced stars like Major
>Taylor at the end of the 19th century. One of the classic examples of the
>transformation of sport in the US by the automobile is that of Barney
>Oldfield. Most Americans know him as a famous early US auto racing driver,
>who drove Henry Ford's famous "999" prototype before WWI. Few know that
>Oldfield had already established a considerable reputation as a bicycle
>racer, but switched to autos as the motorized age dawned. Personally, being
>a bit of a Libertarian, I oppose forcing people in the US to bicycle by
>imposing oppressive taxes on gasoline, but prefer to cycle just because it
>is healthy and fun (at least if I ignore the 5 stitches I took in my elbow
>from a fall last Sunday).
>
>Regards,
>
>Jerry Moos
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andy@ADSmith.org.uk [mailto:Andy@ADSmith.org.uk]
>Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:37 PM
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]American framebuiders rule?
>
>
> >>>From: brucerobbins@worldmailer.com
>
> >>>>From my experience, the cost of living in the UK is considerably
> higher than in the US. Petrol, to name but one product, is almost $6
> a gallon here while average earnings are quite a bit lower.
>
>I really don't think that taking petrol prices as an indicator of cost of
>living
>is very valid. American petrol is way too cheap to reflect the damage that
>petrol
>does and the costs it's overuse occasions. Mr Bush might be happy with this
>cheapness,
>but it doesn't mean it's right. You can subsidise whatever you like, but to
>then use
>that as an indicator of a lower cost of living seems a little suspect.
>
>I'm not convinced either way about cost of living in the UK versus US, I
>just don't know,
>but possibly the higher earners earn more in the US when compared to the
>lower earners,
>and these are the kinds of people who buy custom built frames ? Do
>unemployed
>people in the US have as high an income as UK unemployed ? How _is_ cost of
>living
>measured. I'm not asking to start an argument, more that I really don't
>know.
>
>"Middle-class Americans have more disposable income", might be a better way
>of
>putting it ?
>
> >>>If the cost of living was lower here, we'd maybe have sufficient
> disposable income to buy a bike from Richard or Brian.
>
>I'm sure that frame costs have a lot more to do with good old competition.
>Supply
>and demand, all that kind of thing. We have, per capita, a lot more custom
>frame
>builders in the UK, I'm sure. That should keep prices down.
>
> >>>> There is no need for product liability insurance,
> >>> This may well be an extra expense for American builders.
>
>Don't know about that one, but I guess you Americans do like suing each
>other. :-)
>
> Andy
>
>******************************************************
> Andy Castellano Smith
>Andy@ADSmith.org.uk | http://www.ADSmith.org.uk
>******************************************************
>
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