I was just thinking about this and if you clearcoated over nickel the shine should last, right? enjoy, monkeyman known to the IRS as Mr. Brandon Ives
"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would get done." Gil Scott-Heron
On Thu, 17 May 2001, Moos, Jerry wrote:
> I believe I've read of some frames being patrially nickel plated, so I
> presume these require frequent polishing to maintain a shiney finish, much
> like a 5 cent piece. I thought maybe there was a nickel alloy that might be
> used that wouldn't tarnish as badly. That is presuming that electroplating
> works with alloys, i.e
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Baylis [mailto:rocklube@adnc.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:43 AM
> To: Moos, Jerry
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]A few words about chrome plating
>
>
> Jerry,
>
> The reason for chrome over nickel is because nickel will tarnish when
> exposed to the elements, chrome does not.
>
> Brian Baylis
> >
> > Brian, while you're educating us, what is the value of chroming a frame,
> > rather than simply nickel plating it and being done with it? How can one
> > tell the difference between a nickel plated frame and a chromed one?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry Moos
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian Baylis [mailto:rocklube@adnc.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 2:30 AM
> > To: Diane Feldman
> > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: Re: [CR]A few words about chrome plating
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > All chrome has nickel under it. The electroplating process by nature
> > requires various "steps" that electrons can jump from one element to the
> > next. The gap has to be small enough for the process to work. Originally
> > copper was required for the nickel to stick to. Then the chrome could
> > stick to the nickel. What happened was that through chemistry the
> > industry formulated a nickel compound that would bond to steel, thus
> > eliminating the neccessity for the copper step. Most of what we call
> > chrome plating is nickel; the chrome itself is only microns thick since
> > at that point the process is about 3% effecient as compared to about (as
> > I sort of remember) nickel which is around 30% and copper which is very
> > effecient at around 70% or so as I recall. The nickel is the primary
> > source of durability and gloss (or depth) of the chrome. I think that
> > covers it for the basics.
> >
> > Brian Baylis
> > La Mesa, CA
> > >
> > > Ah, yeah I guess I was asking if there was any benefit in a nickel
> and/or
> > a
> > > copper layer under the chrome in terms of durability, or corrosion
> > > resistance, or lessening any weakening of the steel.
> > >
> > > DF
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>
> > > To: "Diane Feldman" <feldmanbike@home.com>
> > > Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [CR]A few words about chrome plating
> > >
> > > > Dave, I'm not sure what you're asking. Please clarify.
> > > >
> > > > Brian Baylis
> > > > >
> > > > > What about a nickel layer under the chrome? I remember Ten Speed
> > Drive
> > > > > making a big deal about the multi-layer copper, nickel, and chrome
> on
> > > their
> > > > > frames in the 1980;'s. At least on the top of the line Ciocc and
> > > Tomasso
> > > > > frames, the plating looked great, but how did it last and did the
> > nickel
> > > > > have anything to do with it?
> > > > >
> > > > > David Feldman
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>
> > > > > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:12 AM
> > > > > Subject: [CR]A few words about chrome plating
> > > > >
> > > > > > Listmembers,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are a few key points regarding chrome plating that weren't
> > > > > > completely addressed, which I'd like to illuminate since the topic
> > > came
> > > > > > up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First, it is of prime importance to have a very good relationship
> > with
> > > > > > ones' plater if one expects excellent results while avoiding the
> > > > > > pitfalls that can (but do not neccessarily have to) accompany a
> > chrome
> > > > > > plating job. The problem of drainage is easily solved by one of
> two
> > > > > > methods. The best one is not to have any holes in the seat stays
> or
> > > fork
> > > > > > blades in the first place. The only safe way to accomplish this is
> > > > > > during the framebuilding process; filling the one vent hole in the
> > > fork
> > > > > > or stay just after brazing the final joint that encloses the tube
> > > while
> > > > > > it is still hot. Trying to fill a hole afterwards is risky and is
> a
> > > > > > pretty good way to insure that a small pinhole will allow plating
> > > > > > solution to enter and have no way to escape. So for resorations it
> > is
> > > > > > best to make sure each stay and blade hace two holes at opposite
> > ends
> > > > > > that are about 3/32" in diameter. Any GOOD plater can work with
> that
> > > and
> > > > > > give the owner of the frame the ability to introduce a rust
> > inhibitor
> > > > > > AFTER the paint job is applied.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regarding polishing. Yes it is dangerous, providing the plater
> > (which
> > > > > > includes all but the one I use) goes about it with the polishing
> > > lathes
> > > > > > that Jim described. The exceptional plater will have developed a
> > > > > > "secret" method to accomplish this task without risk to frame or
> > human
> > > > > > body. As luck would have it, the polisher at my plater is a good
> > > friend
> > > > > > of mine (we have an interest in drums and drumming in common) and
> > has
> > > > > > passed this trick on to me; which I can use myself if I'm so
> > inclined
> > > > > > (which usually I'm not). But, it is quite safe and only requires
> > some
> > > > > > time and effort to accomplish, along with a few special tools and
> > > > > > whatnot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Only a really careless or inexperienced plater can accomplish
> > hydrogen
> > > > > > embrittlement on a frame. It's not easy to do. As far as I know,
> > only
> > > > > > about a half an hour at 300 or so degrees is required to disipate
> > the
> > > > > > effect. Maybe industrial (or "hard" chrome) requires 12 to 24
> hours
> > at
> > > > > > temp., but not decorative chrome like we use. Modern nickel
> > > formulations
> > > > > > take the place of the old "triple chrome" process and work
> perfectly
> > > > > > well. Like Jim said, copper is for heavily pitted parts these
> days.
> > If
> > > a
> > > > > > frame is that bad off, it's probably best not to chrome (or maybe
> > even
> > > > > > ride) it at that point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The chrome I get from my plater is mirrorlike; it's all in the
> > > polishing
> > > > > > and keeping clean tanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as a completely chrome frame goes, OUCH! Costs a bit of
> money
> > > for
> > > > > > a good plater to do it; so there's no point in doubling it by
> > sending
> > > it
> > > > > > to someone else to hand to a plater. Find you own guy and save the
> > > money
> > > > > > for a payment on your Ferarri, like Joe said. Good luck.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian Baylis