On tubulars.
I had a set of Vittoria Special Pave given to me. I was not happy with the QC. This was two days before the first race of the season. I was not impressed when I tried to check the pressure on one of them and ripped the tube at the valve stem. Raced on three-year-old Conti clinchers and heavier wheels instead. Finished way back. The next week I fiinished in the bunch of the lead pack and felt much better. Whatever. The good Vittoria that was left lost air in my basement while my good Vittoria Tigre Cross tubulars stayed firm. Latex v. butyl tubes I guess.
When I showed him the Rivendell ad copy for the Rolly Polley my friend, who owns a shop and raced in Europe, said maybe it is time to try clinchers. My Rolly Pollies sound really neat on smooth pavement and seem to roll really well.
But what about pinch flats? My only experience with tubbies is cross. I won the provincial championship (MasterA) due in part to my tubular tires. The strongest rider in my field double flatted his clinchers. He went on to win the national championship. Another rider ahead of me flatted his clincher. I think I would have caught him anyway, but who knows? I ended up attacking when the guy just behind me flubbed a shift and won. Wow! I've never been champ at anything. And I attribute it in part to my tubular tires.
I so want to like tubulars, but can't really justify the price of good ones for the road. The aforementioned Special Pave retail for CAN$150 each. I was willing to try them when I got them for free, but hoo boy! that's expensive. The Rolly Pollies cost me CAN$60 not unreasonable in the land of CAN$100 clinchers by Michellin, Hutchinson , and Continental. I guess I must state that I want a wide tire for comfort as all of my road riding now after the first two races of the season is for training for mtb racing and commuting. I want wide tires, and fenders, and lights, dammit!
I wish I bought two of Bob Vinyard's CDMs, but I didn't. A teamate is going to France in July. Maybe he can bring me back some Dugast tubbies?
Cheers!
Greg
Bicycle Classics inc wrote:
> I would have to take exception to the idea that good tubulars are in any
> way cheaper than good clinchers. Over the past few years the feedback I've
> heard on upper line Vittoria tubulars is that they can be rather marginal.
> Personal experiance with relatively modern Vittoria tubulars was also
> rather mixed. The upshot is that even at $ 60 to $80 one cannot get a
> really good tubular with great QC (quality control). Veloflex makes an
> excellent tubular, (and Dugast in France), but they are all very pricey.
> And while the Veloflex is generally really great, they on occasion can be
> less than round. A clincher under $30 can be a blast to ride (the
> reasonably wide and comfortable Panaracer Stradius 26mm).
>
> I've spent a lot of time the past few years comparing various tubulars and
> clinchers, and can relay a few personal thoughts.
>
> 1) Clement Wide tubulars such as Del Mondos are so comfortable that
> nothing comes close. The del Mondos are actually I believe faster than
> Paris Robaix tires (that is because wider tires all else equal yields lower
> rolling resistance). See Bicycling Magazine about 7 months ago. The
> downside is that wider tires make the bike feel as though it handles
> slower. The big upside, though, is that while it may feel like it handles
> slower it will actualy corner much better! Del Mondos are no longer
> produced and anyone should grab them when they find them. As a final aside,
> Del Mondos feel increadible on dirt - an expensive indulgence - but way
> less than a really good bottle of wine.
>
> 2) It seems as if a few manufacturers - Veloflex and Vittoria, are
> basically using tubular casings for top-end clinchers. Until this year I
> thought clinchers really were second rate until trying the Veloflex. I
> have not ridden the expensive Vittoria clinchers, but expect them to also
> be at least pretty nice. The nice thing about these trick clinchers is
> that a nasty but small puncture (i.e a nail) which would destroy a tubular
> (or force an messy repair) can be dealt with easily and cost effectively
> with a clincher. You're expenditure on a pricey clincher is not such a
> gamble as it is with a tubular.
>
> But - how does the top-tier tubular vs clincher battle really play out? I
> believe that a really top tubular will win out, but it is getting close.
> Clinchers are less cushy, but they have a more solid feel in some hard to
> describe way. By playing with optimium pressure, one can find the sweet
> spot of a clincher as one would with a tubular. The kicker is that to get
> a tubular these days with the comfort and speed of a Michelin Axial pro
> 25mm for example, is nearly impossible. We can take a variety of steel
> bikes and make in many ways ride better (smoother, faster?, cushier) with
> the clinchers compared to most of the 21-22mm tubulars out there.
>
> A couple of years ago, I was absolutely amazed that tubulars lost favor.
> Now I'm no longer surprised.
>
> Now - will someone just make a really awesome 24-28mm clincher? As a tire
> gets wider, the inherent dissadvantage of a clincher is lessened.(In the
> old days, the French made a 650b wide touring clincher with casings similar
> to those found on tubulars. If someone would make a wider clincher with a
> real lightweight casing that would be quite a prize.
>
> Hint Hint - Is there enough interest on the CR list for us to try to
> contract with a tire maker for them to be made? There are only 3 tire
> makers I can think of that could do the trick - one in particular would be
> perfect, but we probably need to offer to buy at least 500 - 1,000 pieces.
> 450 CR members - thats one pair per person for the cause.....
>
> Mike Kone - Bicycle Classics inc.
>
> At 04:43 PM 6/30/01 -0400, jackieosullivan@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >Jerry,
> >
> >In spite of what apers to be laborious technique, decent tubies (except
> >things like Condors--yech) give one a feel for the road like nothig else.
> >
> >I cannot speak to performance on bikes made of modern materials, but
> >a classic steel road frame with decent wheels and sew-ups is a dream.
> >Plus, it is very quick and easy to change a flat--faster than a clincher.
> >
> >And the really weird thing is now they are cheaper. I am presently riding
> >Vittoria Competition Rally 21mm tires. They only cost 16.95 at my local
> >bike emporium. They DO NOT ride like a cheap tire--they popped on
> >nice and straight, and so far have proved their Kevlar mettle on nasty
> >city streets. They have one piece valves, but at that price they are
> >disposable! (I don't even really mind fixing good tires--it used to be
> >something of a cult badge of honor ;-)) Decent clinchers will run 25.00+
> >for the tire and another 5 for a tube. This is 180 degrees of what the
> >situation was even 10 or 12 years ago.
> >
> >My 2cents, but I'll take sew-ups for my good bike any day. And I have
> >never found gluing to be especially difficuly.
> >
> >Hope this helps,
> >Jackie