Art,
I appreciate the comments and opinions you have made in your post. Of course, I'm most curious to know your opinion of the artistic style of the frame in said photo. Since it is your opinion, not I nor anyone else have the right to say that your opinion is wrong or right. We can agree with it or disagree, but one can not say it is wrong. It's YOUR opinion, it belongs to you. If you were to state that such an such is a FACT to which I know otherwise, I might (but not neccessiarily) disagree. My feeling is that no one should ever feel that they can not give their opinion. If one wants to make a statement as fact, then be ready to back it up with valid proof if required, and do it nicely. And do it without getting nasty, angry, or worst of all personal. We're all human (I think?) and we can make errors (I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong!) and when we do then be adult and mature enough to admit it and apologize; and prove you are sincere by behaving in such a manner in the future so that everyone else believes it. Simple to write (sort of) but more difficult to practice. Personally, that is where I set my standard.
So fire away on your opinion, how the hell am I supposed to know what you think of it if you don't tell me? How am I going to continue learning if I'm not exposed to new ideas and opinions? I'm not a mind reader you know. Now I'm getting upset you DID'T tell me ;-). I'm attaching two photos of the finished and painted frame that were taken a few hours ago to aid you in your analysis of the work in question. I already know how I feel about the bike; it won't change after hearing your opinion. Besides, what's done is done. And the frame is finished now. The frame is a one-of-a-kind anyway, wheather someone likes it or not; there won't be another one like it.
I doubt if anyone will critize you or come to my defence (I'm a big boy, I can take care of myself) and if they do they are not respecting your right to your opinion. They can agree or disagree with your observations, but I won't let them call you wrong.
Last bit of information. A bicycle frame is first and formost a machine to be ridden, used, and enjoyed. If someones opinion of my style is not to their taste, I am not hurt. People who don't like my style don't order frames from me. Simple as pie! I see things constantly that are "artistic and or fancy" and much of it I don't like. I can appreciate the skill and effort it took to make; but I don't like the looks. So what! On the other hand, if someone (especially the customer) rides the bike and feels it is wrong or doesn't like it THEN I get concerned. When that happens I'll deal with it; I'm still waiting....
Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA. Knowing oneself from within works better than having thick skin.
P.S. The photos are a little bit large. befor I clog up your email box I'll ask if you want the photos of the finished frame. There are only two of them. If I wasn't computer-retarded, I would post them somewhere so everyone could look at them. Sterling is going to take some photos of it, maybe he can help me get something together. Sorry I'm a DORK, alright?
Brian Baylis
Anxious to hear what you think.
>
> In response to Brian's observation that a small group of the 400 members
> contribute to most of the commentary on this site and his call for what
> others think, here goes. I introduced myself and added a few posts in the
> months that I've been lurking around here. I came on in the middle of one of
> the emotional slams about some dead guy and commented that perhaps I'm in
> the wrong spot, but was assured by several private e-mails that the
> substance of this site is about bikes, and to hang with it. I've spent a
> number of years on oldroads and have found that environment to be an honest,
> supportive forum. Realizing that the discussions here were a bit different
> in topic and tone, I read everything you've written in order to get a
> handle on what this site is about.
> I think there are some really straightforward people here. I think
> their knowledge and opinions and advice are worth seeking out. I think
> others ought to ride more and talk less. I don't get the Masi/Confente thing
> and
> frankly think it's way overplayed. Sorry if that "hurts anyone's feelings."
> I don't get the hurt feelings thing. I think a free exchange of ideas ought
> to preclude hurt feelings. I think that a set of rules ought toapply to
> everyone, not just big names in the hobby with reps. Suppose I have a
> legitimate, fact-based beef with a celebrity. Can I air it here as
> righteously as I could against a no name e-bay dealer? I'm not sure.
> I don't want to get off on a rant here, but a number of us have left because
> of the overwhelming sense of attitude that permeates a strand of this site.
> It is by no means the whole site, but it is similar to the attitude many
> high tech, weekend roadies, dressed like Lance, have. It's the "I have the
> big guns, f... you, you can't hang with us" attitude regardless of how well
> you ride but rather based on their idea of what Bicycling Magazine just
> designated as the hottest $4000 road machine. It's ironical that attitude
> shows up here. It appears at times that the PC thing is to adore Confente,
> Masis and Campagnolo and heaven help you if you don't. Brian showed an
> example of a new frame he was working on. I had a criticism of the style of
> the frame from an artistic point of view. I wanted to share my observations
> in an art critigue sense. However, I knew that if I did, my criticism of the
> frame would be seen as a personal attack on Brian (which it would not have
> been) and
> that a round of fans would rush to his defense. The cult of personality is
> at times rampant here, for both the living and the dead.
> While I am not a framebuilder nor do I make my living in the world of
> bicylcles, vintage or not, as a collector and lover of bikes I have an
> interest in many of the topics discussed here. One can't legislate honesty
> or open mindedness or compassion on this site any more than one can trust
> that a member won't bid against another member on an auction. This site
> isn't everything I want, but it has its moments. This is just the way I see
> it. I don't know, I could be wrong.
>
> Art Smith