After seeing and hearing Richard Sachs at Cirque, I now understand why Richard can make the claim that he is using modern materials, albeit with lugs, and making a thoroughly modern frame that can be and is used in today's racing. I agree with Chuck, progress is good. Regarding progress in the componentry, while I love the look and feel of my Campagnolo Super and Nuovo Record, I have to admit that more of my 15 rsteel road bikes are equipped with STI and Ergo than Super Record and Nuovo Record--and they are wonderful to ride. So, progress is also being made in componentry even if we don't discuss it on CR. Doesn't mean I can't love both. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL