Re: [CR]Herse and parts

(Example: Framebuilding:Tubing)

Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David Feldman" <feldmanbike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Herse and parts
To: Jan Heine <heine@mindspring.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <a05010404b93643d42069@[165.121.40.96]>


To this full-time bike mechanic, it would seem that one thing hasn't changed in fifty-plus years--you cannot buy in one box or from one source all of the parts to make the best non-racer's road bicycle.
David Feldman
Vancouver, WA


--- Jan Heine wrote:


> First of all, Herse, Singer et al. were not
> framebuilders. The French
> distinguish between a framebuilder (constructeur des
> cadres) and a
> "constructeur," which means a builder of bikes. You
> can't order a
> Singer frame and fork - you order a bike. Nothing
> wrong with a
> framebuilder, like Bianco, but they won't made you a
> randonneur or
> camping bike. If you are a racer, you go to a
> framebuilder, if you
> are a cyclotouriste, you go to a "constructeur."
>
> The philosophy between Herse and Singer differs.
> Herse got his start
> with components, so those always were his hallmark
> (see the bike in
> Rivendell Reader No. 26 for a good selection of
> them). Singer made
> bikes, and modified components only where he saw it
> necessary.
> Stronglight cranks were perfectly fine, so Singer
> never made his own
> cranks, but he did offer his own BB with cartridge
> bearings (which
> outlasts anything available then). He did make
> brakes, stems (any
> custom French builder had to have his own stems),
> front derailleurs
> (most then-current designs didn't work on large
> tooth differences
> like the common 46/32), seatposts (a bit of frippery
> here - they had
> internal clamping). All French "constructeurs" made
> racks, of course.
>
> Singer is not dissimilar to other constructeurs in
> the parts he
> offered - they all made and modified stuff, some
> more, some less.
> Most of the complex stuff (machine work for BB
> spindles, casting,
> forging) was subcontracted. Levallois-Perret was the
> metal-working
> center of Paris, with the Citroën factory and many
> small custom car
> shops (as Californians would call them).
>
> I have a wonderful women's bike by Ondet (Lyon).
> Under the
> chainguard, it has a custom-made front derailleur
> (similar to Herse's
> model), for the half-step gearing. You couldn't do
> that elegantly
> with mass-produced parts, so M. Ondet made his
> own... (The bike will
> be in Rivendell Reader No. 27 or 28.)
>
> Of course, all of this came about because of
> randonneuring. You
> simply cannot build a good randonneur bike by just
> making a frame and
> fork and then have the customer worry about the
> racks and fenders.
> That is why there are so few good randonneur bikes
> found on this
> continent, with the exception of Mariposa, who work
> in the French
> way. (Or you can become the constructeur and specify
> every smallest
> measurement and detail to the framebuilder, and then
> hope you (or
> they) didn't overlook something when the time comes
> to put it all
> together. It's a nightmare - I have done it. After
> the second try,
> the bike is 95% right!)
>
> For the question of who made the stuff - I hope to
> have an interview
> in my newsletter at some point that will elaborate
> on that. The
> Japanese Herse book shows how the Herse stems were
> made from extruded
> bar stock at the Herse shop. A lot of drilling and
> filing! I am told
> odd-length cranks were made that way by Herse as
> well, but the
> standard stuff was forged and machined somewhere
> else. TA made some
> of the later chainrings, but the early ones with the
> triangular tooth
> profile appear to have been made on more primitive
> equipment,
> probably in the Herse shop. There is a photo in the
> Japanese book
> with what appear to be blank chainrings (no holes
> cut yet) on the
> wall.
>
> Jan Heine, Seattle
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