Re: [CR]Intro/Herse Inquiry (long) & rambling response. Touring bike weights

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli:Laser)

From: <CYCLESTORE@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:36:46 EDT
Subject: Re: [CR]Intro/Herse Inquiry (long) & rambling response. Touring bike weights
To: gumpowderdream@yahoo.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org


Dan and all,

For more insight Jan Heine (It's long ride sunday) might chirp in later. Assuming it has 700c wheels (not retrofited 27Inch) this sounds like a older racer I saw in the Rene Herse shop in 1983. The 1983 model was an unusual 753 frame that was lugless silver soldered with sewups and Campagnolo NR and a reported weight of 18 lbs. This weight seemed very low but I road a similar Columbus SL frame in a medium size with no special equipment that came in at 19.5 lbs a few years earlier. The reported (supposedly confirmed ?) weights of some Rene Herse and similar touring bicycles built for tourist trials in the 1950's were in the low twenty's (lb) with racks fenders and lighting long before the days of LED lighting products. In contrast I suppose a Cannondale T1000 (top of their line ?) with Aluminum frame, equiped with racks fenders and generator lighting would be 30 lbs plus before required water bottle, tools and spares are fitted for any trip at all. It must be said that the production Cannondale tourer has not been updated in many years and is not their best effort but a 20 lbs fully equipped day tourer from the 1950's most certainly must have been.

The Serial number hints at #16, 1961. My later produced Serial Number was 1983 (no spacing between numbers and was the year of manufacture though I recieved it 8-9 months after purchase. The bolt on brakes and lack of proper mudguard and tire clearance says racer boy bike to me. Despite the swoopy fork, close clearances were not common even in the mid 1960's even on Matre Jaques A.'s winning Gitane's or Eddy Merckx's early Peugeots that I have seen.

No sport/weekend tourer would lack mudguard and/or wider tire clearance though these were custom bicycles and yours came to America. The original owner may have prefered a mudguard less bike. In those early days almost all high quality bikes were racing bikes so...it stands to reason it would be a racer. It must be remmberd that pure racing bikes up to the early 1970's almost all came equipeed with fenders eyes. Can anyone spell Cinelli, even his. Custom bikes or hand builts from small shops might eliminate this feature but all Campagnolo 1010 long dropouts came with one set of fender eyes when stock. Most of the Herses I've seen we shipped here with mudguards that have been removed by the owners or banged up till unusable.

Seems like you have a rare 1960's racer to me from Rene Herse. Parts, wow talk to Mike Kone or Jan Heine.Campagnolo Grans Sport (similar to NR) or Huret

Slightly O.T.------A thought on touring Bike Weights For an interesting comparison I did a ride to a ride (Early Saturday start) Friday night with a friend of a little over 40 miles in the dark on a wonderful night. We were able to arrive early at midnight as the start was not till 7:30 AM, then free camped at the start. My newest bike was "undated classic Alex Moulton" stainless steel job with dual lighting front and rear, tent, sleeping kit, and three changes of clothes, jacket and water and bottle (just one) and it weighed in at 39 lbs total. My Rene Herse Camping/Demontable/Randonese combo bike weighs nearly this much by itself, maybe more. Not shabby but my friend was riding a similar rig sans sleeping bag (chilly night for both us in the 55 d range) configured on one of the best but heaviest camping bikes arround( Miyata terra Liner) and his bike and gear weighed in at 46 lbs total with two full H2O bottles! Not bad. How did those old French bikes get so light?

Yours in cycling,

Gilbert Anderson Raleigh, NC USA

In a message dated 8/11/02 2:41:34 AM, gumpowderdream@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hello all,

A brief introduction. I've been cycling since childhood and only recently (1995) became interested in classic lightweights and traditional bicycles. Currently work as a mechanic in a non-profit bike shop in South Seattle, WA. I currently ride a late 70s Fuji America as beater fixed gear and (OT) 2001 Rivendell All Rounder/Rough Stuff bicycle.

I've recently decided to purchase a 700c Rene Herse through the shop and hoped that I might get some info about it from the list members. The frame itself seems unusual because the front derailleur is clamp on and the brake calipers bolt on through the fork crown and seat stay bridge, rather than being French centerpulls mounted to bosses. There are also no bosses for front or rear racks nor lights or generators and there is very little clearance for fenders and medium/high volume tires. There are bosses for one h2o bottle cage on the seat tube and a three-pronged, trident looking thing on the downtube for the frame pump with a single curved point at the top, near the shifters. The seat and head angles are slack-ish and the fork ends are beautifully curved. The bb shell drops 60mm below the fork ends, front and rear. The wheel base is 105cm (c-c).

60cm ST (c-t), 57cm TT (c-c), chromed lugs, fork legs, stays, Campagnolo 1010 long fork ends with single eyelets front and rear, full Reynolds 531, 120mm rr spacing. S/N: "16 61" - on rr non-drive fork end and bottom of fork crown. The saddle, stem, foam bar 'tape', pedals, rear derailleur, frame pump and umbrella clip, tires, calipers and brake levers are clearly not original. All other components appear to be period correct and original, including: Early Campagnolo Gran Sport 36h hi-flange hubs(steel centers with alloy flanges) laced to mis-matched Super Champion rims with Campagnolo skewers [see http://www.sheldonbrown.org/rochet/ for an idea, though the Herse's are not flip-flops]. Stronglight P3(?) headset. Huret Luxe clamp-on front derailleur. Huret long downtube shift levers mounted on frame bosses. Not sure about the bottom bracket (haven't peeked inside yet). 170mm TA six-pin style alloy cottered crank with tear drop shaped spindle and 9/16" X 20mm pedal threads. Regina 5spd freewheel (14-28). Campagnolo Record (?) two-bolt seat post.

Non-original items: Superbe brake levers and calipers (Matthauser pads), Nitto Technomic stem, generic rat trap pedals with weighted reflectors (ugh), Shimano 600 rear derailleur, Continental "something" front tire, Specialized CrossRoads cyclocross rear tire, plastic leather covered saddle, HP frame pump and AFA umbrella clip.

I assume that this bicycle was built in 1961, as indicated by the S/N. Any idea what type of riding this bicycle was designed for? Or what components would have been part of the original build?

Apologies for the long post. Any and all info is much appreciated. Cheers!

Dan Boxer Seattle, WA >>

Gilbert Anderson

The North Road Bicycle Company
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