> Brian,
> Very good sugar coating job.
> I guess New Yorkers are a tad harsh.
> So, it comes down to: "who cares" and why must we classify
everything(frame
> wise).
> There's a finite inventory of pre '84 light weight frames circulating out
> there, if fresh new expressions aren't allowed to flourish, then growth
has
> stagnated. Yawn.
> regards,
> j.p.
> n.y.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>
> To: "M_A_Lebrón" <unreceived_dogma@mindspring.com>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 1:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]!x?%^<+#??@!!!...Yikes!
>
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > Well this looks like a good spot to jump in. I've been busy today
> > (imagine that) and I haven't had time to digest the topic until now. I
> > just finished my evening errands; just bought two dozen Krispy Kreme
> > donuts (1 doz. glazed, 1 doz. assorted) for a birthday party tomorrow
> > and now I've got a few minutes before I shave my legs for the first time
> > in about 10 years. Something strange must be going on since normally I
> > don't ride enough to go through the trouble. I'm kinda the opposite of
> > Richie in that I'm a framebuilder that happens to ride.
> >
> > In responce to your wondering what one such as myself is thinking while
> > reading the exchanges on classic or not classic; I would expect each one
> > of us to have a different reaction. At the "artist level" so to speak,
> > we are all different. We're doing different things and for different
> > reasons. As time passes I realize more each day that what I'm doing here
> > is not the same thing as what others may be doing elsewhere. I also feel
> > that my situation is somewhat unique, just like me.
> >
> > So for starters, I'm at the point where it doesn't matter to me in the
> > least wheather my current (or even my past work for that matter) is
> > considered "classic" or "classic inspired". They're just words to me. I
> > believe I know pretty much where my work fits in and wheather it is art
> > or not. To me it is art. A bicycle frame is in fact a metal sculpture;
> > but it has a function as well. That precise thing is why I (just by
> > accident) happen to be here. In the early 70's when as fledgling
> > framebuilders we Americans began to learn what we are now calling
> > "classic framebuilding methods", we were inspired and/or trained to do
> > things mostly by hand and with a certain amount of "style" and level of
> > workmanship. At that time that is what it took to produce a frame that
> > we now consider classic.
> >
> > Naturally, the industy had to "progress" or die, in that in order for
> > companies to continue to exist they had to keep the market expanding and
> > the bicycle "evloving" to have customers. 99.999% of the bicycle
> > industry is business. What "art" was in the bicycle industry rapidly
> > faded away after the introduction of the investment cast lug. That is
> > not to say that artistic frames can not be made with investment cast
> > lugs; they most certainly can and the new Pacenti lugs are helping that
> > cause. As a small framebuilder, one has to somewhat keep pace with
> > "modern trends" if one must sell a certain number of frames per year to
> > survive. The smaller your production numbers the more likely one can
> > survive and not have to chase trends that you do not agree with. In my
> > case painting has been a lifesaver (and a curse at times) because it
> > allowed me to survive during the early years of alternative materials
> > when it wasn't all that easy to sell expensive steel frames. During
> > those times and other times in the past I still made it through even
> > though there were some years that saw only one or two frames (and I mean
> > that literally; 1984 2 frames, 1999 1 frame. I've built 40 frames since
> > the beginning of 1995). Now, for the same reason, I have been able to
> > resist building frames with extended head tubes because I feel first
> > they are not neccessary and second they are offensive to my eye. Since
> > I'm an artist and not a businessman, I afford myself that luxury because
> > it pleases me. Extended head tubes are not "classic" either; not that it
> > matters to me beyond I have decided a while ago that for the rest of my
> > career I'm going to build frames in the "classic" style because that is
> > what I do best. That is what makes me an individual and from a business
> > standpoint it is a niche that isn't occupied by many; perhaps no others.
> > The replica idea is a "bad business" plan but in terms of what will come
> > of it I suspect the bikes will be "interesting". If the bikes are
> > interesting then my life is interesting. It's that simple on this end.
> >
> > So the bottom line on what my opinion of what is classic and what isn't
> > or what is "classic" or "classic inspired" I cannot nor will not say. In
> > addition, whatever you all settle on is fine with me. Call a Rivendell a
> > classic, include it on the list, it dosen't bother or offend me in any
> > way. Leave them out if you want to, I will not argue or have hurt
> > feelings. I know what I like and what is classic to me and I'm not
> > concerned enough about it to debate it. In so far as how one classifies
> > my current work; again that's their business. I'm building them exactly
> > the way they were built in my days at Wizard Cycles only with an
> > additional 28 years experience. I'm using the same lugs, dropouts,
> > crowns, and BB shells that we were using in those days except I now have
> > a MUCH bigger collection of goodies. I'm using early 70's Reynolds and
> > Columbus tubing, mitering by hand, making hand made seat stay caps,
> > using Easy-Flo 45 silverbraze, and working off of full scale drawings
> > just like I always have. Still using real Imron too. Very little has
> > changed. I don't know how to classify that. Other than the workmanship,
> > it might as well have been made in 1973. So what do you call it? Answer;
> > who cares? Call it whatever you want; doesn't bother me. I know what it
> > is, that's all that matters on this end.
> >
> > I appreciate your pitch for us old timers Mark, but I'm not too worried
> > about where things fall in. They're just bike frames at this point.
> > Throw some parts at them and jam it between your legs. Doesn't matter to
> > me how to label it.
> >
> > Crap! It's late.......and I've got a date with a razor!
> >
> > Brian Baylis
> > La Mesa, CA