Re: [CR]Coats of paint - what & how to apply... question for Brian B

B

> Steve,
>
> You are correct regarding various paints and methods of application.
> Urethanes applied properly are best for bike frames for many reasons;
> we'll just leave it at that.
>
> You're asking for the world when you want to know the details of what
> equipment I use and other intimate details of paint application I have
> honed over the past 30 years: but I'm going to give it to you. It was in
> fact 1972 when I painted my first bike using a cheap Badger air brush.
> Urathanes can be easily reduced to proper viscosity for spraying through
> an air brush. But there is a much better paint applicator than that. Go
> to your local hardware store and buy a mop. Just kidding!
>
> The spray gun of choice up until the advent of HVLP stuff (which I do
> not use) was the Binks Model 26. It is just like a standard siphon type
> spray gun except it got shrunk in the wash. It is not a top trigger
> touch-up gun like a DeVilbuss (although some guys have used those as
> well) but just a downsized regular gun. They are fitted with an 8oz. cup
> and that is more than enough paint for most anything. I usually put in
> around 4 to 6oz of reduced material to spray a color on a frame and
> fork. The Mod. 26 is out of production but I suppose if you look around
> you could find one. Ron Smith, the original Masi painter probably
> determined which gun would work best for Masi and the standard for bike
> painting was set as far as any spin-off from Masi goes. We all use(ed)
> them at one time or another. Many of us still do.
>
> OK, that is one piece of important information. From here on I am
> telling you things that I have kept close to the vest for 25 years. I
> hope you appreciate what I'm about to do.
>
> First, abandon any conventional settings for pressure at the spray
> nozzel. I think normal pressures run maybe 35 or 40 psi (I don't even
> know). Like you mentioned, depending on the paint and even the color and
> what type of coat is required the pressure varies, but it can be as high
> as 90 psi for some situations. There is a delicate balance between
> material and reduction, spray pressure, and the thickness of the coat
> you apply. This balance is something I can't explain in detail because
> there are hundreds of variations and the decisions are based on 30 years
> of painting experience. I have alerted you to what to try and think
> about and learn about as you work; but that's the best I can do for you
> here. In general (relatively) high nozzle pressure, more reduction than
> specified, and move fast. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to a car
> painter (which it would be) but for painting bikes, it works for me.
>
> If you can get these principals to work for you, then you are on your
> way. The rest comes from experience and working with your material.
>
> Another key to successful painting is what we call the spray pattern. I
> was taught the pattern that Ron Smith came up with at Masi. I have not
> altered it one bit. I have been doing it for 29 years and it allows me
> to essentially paint with my eyes closed. You always know where you are
> and it covers every spot in the most effecient pattern I've ever seen.
> That is really important especially during final clear coats. There is
> no way to explain how it goes. People who have seen me paint tell me I
> look like a robotic painting machine. The robot has to think though,
> since frame size and configuration, and especially braze-ons and bridges
> vary widely; which means you have to work those into the standard
> pattern each time.
>
> That should be enough information to get you started. If you have any
> other questions I will answer them to you personally. Needless to say I
> can't be answering all questions from all commers about how to paint
> bikes.
>
> For those on the list who have sent mail to Sam, go easy! I think some
> may feel Sam is out of line in is questioning. He has an unusual way of
> stating his questions to me, but I undersatand his curiousity and do not
> take any personal offence to his questions nor the way he presents them.
> I don't know him that well, but certainly well enough to know that he
> means no harm and has a thurst for more knowledge on these subjects.
>
> Time to get catfood. I have to go dangerously close to the new Krispy
> Kreme donut shop in El Cajon (which caused a traffic jam the day it
> opened a month ago) that I haven't been to yet. I am going to begin
> acclamation to North Carolina as of today by inserting Krispy Kreme
> donuts into my piehole. Beats a sock anyday. Do cats like donuts too?
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > For the sake of discussion, the number of "coats" of paint depends in large
> > part on the type of paint you are trying to apply... enamel, laquer, or
> > polyurethane- which affects your choice of spraying equipment to apply them.
> > The style, type, and coats required to apply these paints differ greatly now
> > compared to when original bike frames were produced. I view bicycle frame
> > painting ***not*** as a "black art" but as a developed skill that requires
> > patience, practice, and accuracy to successfully complete a quality job
> > using a variety of painting techniques. The paint and equipment you choose
> > to use directly affect the quality of the resulting paint job.
> >
> > Brian, please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that urethane paints
> > may be a better choice for frames (ie Imron or House of Colors), but tend
> > to be more expensive, difficult to mix with toxic activators, levelers, etc,
> > and have one time use after mixing, but provide a more durable finish and a
> > thinner coat while reducing the cure time. Clear top coats are almost a
> > requirement to obtain a "wet look". However, they use a "thicker" paint
> > normally meant for higher pressure spray guns.
> >
> > Supposedly, enamels and lacquer require base coats, more layered coats, and
> > cure time that result in paint jobs that are decidedly not as durable as
> > urethane paints. I have heard that clear coats may not be required for these
> > paints because the clear coat is incorporated within the enamel or laquer
> > paint? I am not sure if current lacquer paints tend to yellow or dull with
> > age like vintage Raleigh bikes that seem to "yellow" dry-transfer decals
> > over time. Recent changes in paint chemistry have made enamel and laquers
> > about equal in application and durability, but not as durable as urethane.
> >
> > Brian, what manufacturer/models of paints and spray equipment do you use to
> > obtain those marvelous finishes and "wet looks" we are interested in? I am
> > currently trying to find out whether I can "thin out" urethane paints to
> > make them viscous enough to run through a number of Paasche airbrushes that
> > I own without clogging the airbrush. Do you have any suggestions? I
> > believe that airbrushes may be a better choice of equipment that
> > conventional car spray guns - less paint overspray with more control. For
> > those interested, I am using airbrush painting techniques from Airbrush
> > Action magazine instructional videos ( http://www.airbrushaction.com ). I am
> > trying to apply urethane paints using 45 psi Paasche AB, H, and VL
> > airbrushes.
> >
> > Thanks, Steve Neago
> > "Potential painter contemplating his work in Cincinnati, OH"
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Wornoutguy@aol.com>
> > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:20 AM
> > Subject: [CR]Coats of paint
> >
> > > Brian 15 coats? paint become brittle with more than 3 mills on there.
> > I
> > > have used PPG, DuPont, PCL, and others -- base coat, thin clear coat, dry
> > > then color sand, add decals and custom stripes, two top coats possible
> > three
> > > of clear. You do paint far better than I do so I am not trying to
> > debate
> > > this. I have put intricate flames on old cars with less steps. I wish I
> > had
> > > the time and you felt like walking me through your work area sometime I
> > might
> > > learn something. Sam DiBartolomeo in Southern CA