Listmembers,
I'm trying to stay out of the discussion about who builds what frame and how good each is compared to one another, blah, blah, blah. Single hand compared to a crew and so on. Generally speaking, frames built for commerce can probably be said to not differ significantly between a single hand and an experienced crew. From that point on I disagree. And if you do build frames alone and they are no better than a crew then why are you building them??
The place where the differance becomes apparent is where a "true" custom frame is involved. The details and specifics of making a frame where nothing is standard, as opposed to a production frame built by a single hand OR a crew, will make it very difficult to accomplish the level of work of a single hand/mind where a creative and functional result is required. What I mean by this is that as one works with different lugs, frame designs, aesthetic points, and finishing details it is more effecient and the end result is more spontainious and harmonious if it is the work of a single hand. The "it doesn't matter who made it" only works if you're talking about frames made for commerce. Some framebuilders are making frames for other reasons that transcend commerce. Bikes of this sort are extrememly rare and their importance to the history and development of the craft will probably not be apparent for another 50+ years. Right now we can't see the forest for the trees. In 50 years affecianados will be noticing the details that most of us are taking for granted and the number of exceptional frames will be realized to be quite few. Things that are all the same and there are a lot of will not be as important as those things that are each and every one unique and special. Items out of place in their time will stick out. Lugged steel frames built in 2002, one at a time to high standards of construction that also have an individual style to each one in this day and age, will seem odd 50 years from now. Sure, "the market" is trying to capitalize on the warm fuzzy feeling of the handmade custom but those who never left, never upsized, never followed trends will the the exceptions to the rule down the road a ways. From that perspective a unique high quality handmade frame from a dedicated framebuilder is better eventually. For those who live for today, and who doesn't, there is a special feeling to owing a bike that is just as unique as the owner is. Having a bike like someone else has, and God forbid the same color as everyone elses' is, is not what I personally like. My experience has been that some people prefer to express their individual tastes as opposed to "I'll have what he's having" approach. It requires more effort and skill to contiuniously evolve and experiment with many styles of framebuilding than it does to limit oneself to a particular style. If it is better to have something more personal and to your taste then I'd say a true custom frame fits the bill.
I have long been interested to test wheather two bikes built with exactly the same materials and dimentions would ride exactly the same. Richard says yes; I'm not so sure about that. Anyone interested in a blind test or something similar? I suggest we find a frame, vintage in design and age, and build two frames exactly the same and then test all three of them. A Colnago from the early 70's or something similar would probably be a good bike to copy. I suppose the "control" frame would have to be as nearly unridden as possible. Obviously the components, tire pressure, etc. would have to be controlled in order to get anything at all usefull informationwise. My feeling is that given these perameters there may be a difference. Like I say, I've been curious to know this. Take a Columbus SL Colnago and build a frame dimentionally the same, with the same lugs and other fittings, and compare the two. A second copy would be needed to compare to the original and the copy if we are to learn anything. The frame should be around 56 to 58 cm c-t. I realize this is a bit of an undertaking, but I'm REALLY curious to know if all of the effort put into every detail of building a frame makes any difference to the ride of the bike. Anyone else as curious as I am? I say there is a difference. It there wasn't then every bike built with the same tubes and dimentions should ride the same, and I don't buy that. Bikes built by the same company out of the same materials at the same time don't even do that. Construction methods and the framebuilders' "touch" matter if I'm correct. It's like painting, every painter who used Imron back in the day had the same paint, and yet not all paint jobs are alike. The "operator" and their methods effect the outcome. I think framebuilding is the same. If the differences are too subtle to detect then we can consider there to be no difference. A number of riders would have to participate in the experiment as well. Now where are we going to find people who want to go out and ride some bikes? It's all well and good to write this stuff to the list, but when are we going to collectivly undertake some scientific experiments?
Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA Sometimes I read this list and I just can't make sense of it.