I have to agree with Richard that to the point of the original query, two frames built identically from identical materials and then assembled with identical parts, will ride identically. I'll even go so far as to say that the joining method doesn't matter, either, i.e., one tig welded and the other lugged. The differences may be aesthetic but they aren't inherent to the build.
Building frames is both science/engineering and art but no one should confuse the two. If the design is competent, the miters are correct, the joining method proven, and the frame straight, then from a "science" standpoint, the frame will be no better or worse whether you spent 60 minutes or 60 hours building it. There is no compromise involved that rises to the significance of being restrained to using the frame tubing or the drivetrain components that are available to us, UNLESS you start drawing or building your own. Assuming that the frame components were prepped and assembled properly, then cutouts, curlicues, thinning of lugs, hand filing miters, 30 coats of hand rubbed paint, or conducting any number of pagan rituals will not result in a "better" bike, only a "prettier" one and prettier does not automatically mean better crafted. In some cases, all the art, if improperly performed or overdone, can result in a lesser bike from a "science" standpoint.
Just my opinion...
Don "who is just finishing his lunch (leftover lasagna. Mmmm. Why is lasagna alway better the second day?) and who will now go back to making tools for framebuilders, both production and custom, being built by engineers, craftsmen, and artists who all probably wish I spent more time shipping and less time gabbing on the internet" Ferris South of Denver, Colorado
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Richard M Sachs Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:50 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Making Frames for Fun and Profit
snipped: Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com> wrote: 1) "I'm still curious; is there any differance between identical frames built using "production" methods and thinking as opposed to frames built for the purpose of producing a frame without any compromises." and: 2) "But should we forsake those who genuinely appreciate the craft of custom framebuilding in the traditional style in the interest
of commerce. I think not! Someone must persist in order to fill the needs of the very few who can justify the wait to own such a creation,
even if it is an emotional choice."
1) are there differences??! the differences are too many to list. but
re the subject of the ride, as i wrote, i believe if two frames are
identically spec-ed to the mm and to the degree, they will ride
alike.
material choices, construction methods, etcetera, will affect other
things.
but would i build a frame in the image of, say, a colnago, just
to prove this? no? would a factory, say, bianchi, clone a design of
mine to prove this. no way.
2) nobody mentioned forsaking anything. jeez, i hate personalizing these
posts, that's why i have a phone. but you and i are in the same
place.
we wouldn't exist unless someone wanted us to work for them. the
degree to which we'll each take on and execute work may differ, but
we are both here to serve the needs of our clientele as well as our
own creative spirit. we are BOTH persisting because there STILL is
a long line at the door of people who do not want to go to the mall
to get a factory bicycle.
e-RICHIE
chester, ct