[CR]Re: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #1122 - 24 msgs

(Example: Books)

From: "Garrett Drake" <gedman3@earthlink.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <CATFOODRZQeNoLfjp7F000000f6@catfood.nt.phred.org>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:39:49 -0500
Subject: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #1122 - 24 msgs

Ihave a Bicycle Guide article from 1987. It's about their Gap model but goes into great depth about lugs, construction etc.

GED


----- Original Message -----
From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 1:03 AM
Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #1122 - 24 msgs



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> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Re: When-what is the last of C-R years (NortonMarg@aol.com)
> 2. WTB: Campy #1053 Track Dropouts (Questor)
> 3. Re: Re: When-what is the last of C-R years (Questor)
> 4. Basso dating and info (Hugh Thornton)
> 5. Re: Basso dating and info (Richard M Sachs)
> 6. Teledyne Titan-1st ride (handsfie@aol.com)
> 7. Re: Basso dating and info (swampmtn)
> 8. Tommasini SLX Super Prestige has sold (Frank)
> 9. RE: CR Date Cutoff (Andrew Gillis)
> 10. ebay outing (Richard M Sachs)
> 11. Re: Re: When-what is the last of C-R years (Steven m Johnson)
> 12. RE: ebay outing (David Bilenkey)
> 13. RE: RE: CR Date Cutoff (Mark Bulgier)
> 14. Re: ebay outing-Chris Kvale (LouDeeter@aol.com)
> 15. Classic cut off criteria (garth libre)
> 16. Re: Classic cut off criteria (Richard M Sachs)
> 17. Re: Classic cut off criteria (Chuck Schmidt)
> 18. Re: ebay outing (Keith Kessel)
> 19. Re: Re: When-what is the last of C-R years (NortonMarg@aol.com)
> 20. Looking for parts (David Goerndt)
> 21. Re: Basso dating and info (swampmtn)
> 22. RE: RE: CR Date Cutoff (Warren & Elizabeth)
> 23. new member (Whirlybirdone@aol.com)
> 24. Re: Classic cut off criteria (Steven L. Sheffield)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: NortonMarg@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:10:20 EST
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: When-what is the last of C-R years
> To: LouDeeter@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> In a message dated 2/17/02 10:59:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> LouDeeter@aol.com writes:
>
> << Otherwise, I'd
> say 126mm or narrower rear spacing would be the line of demarcation. Lou
>>
>
> And here I am, getting ready to convert some of my SR era 7 speed wheels to
> 130mm spacing so I can get less dish. I'm also putting together a Masi 3V
> that I'm planning on using a 130mm 8speed wheel, with Campy handlebar end
> shifters (old, non indexed) and Super Record derailleurs. At risk of sounding
> heretical, I think it's mildly clear that 9 speed and newer, glued or tig
> welded frames, probably don't count as "classic". I started using Shimano 7
> speed SIS cassette rear hubs because I got tired of breaking Campagnolo rear
> axles. Campy didn't make a cassette hub until the 8 speed, and I'm just
> getting into those partly because they're obsolete, but mostly because
> they're Campy and the axles won't break on me. There's also more gears for
> those around than there are for the Shimanos. I suppose the axle thing is
> only an issue if you're 175 lbs or more...
> Food for thought.
> Stevan Thomas
> Alameda, CA
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Questor" <questor@cinci.rr.com>
> To: <framebuilders-request@phred.org>
> Cc: "classicrendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:25:16 -0500
> Subject: [CR]WTB: Campy #1053 Track Dropouts
>
> Hello,
>
> I am trying to find a matched set of Campy #1053 Track front/rear =
> dropouts for a project bike I am working on. Does anyone know where I =
> can find or buy a set of these?
>
> Thanks, Steve Neago
> Cincinnati, OH
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Questor" <questor@cinci.rr.com>
> To: <NortonMarg@aol.com>
> Cc: "classicrendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: When-what is the last of C-R years
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:39:49 -0500
>
> In response to Stevan's comments:
>
> Hmmmm.. You used that "obsolete" word again about vintage Campy parts...
> have you been brain-washed by your local LBS? "Obsolete" is just a
> marketing term for parts your LBS can't obtain - which does not apply to CR
> forum members where they can be found.
>
> Through the CR, ebay, and reputable vintage dealers, I have easily found
> 1980s Campy parts that I need. No LBS needed here... Prehaps we should
> label this parts network CR members tap into as the "Vintage Underground"!
> <COOL!> <GRIN> No obsolete parts used here...
>
> Regards, Steve Neago
> Cincinnati, OH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <NortonMarg@aol.com>
> To: <LouDeeter@aol.com>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 3:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: When-what is the last of C-R years
>
>
> > In a message dated 2/17/02 10:59:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > LouDeeter@aol.com writes:
> >
> > << Otherwise, I'd
> > say 126mm or narrower rear spacing would be the line of demarcation. Lou
> >>
> >
> > And here I am, getting ready to convert some of my SR era 7 speed wheels
> to
> > 130mm spacing so I can get less dish. I'm also putting together a Masi 3V
> > that I'm planning on using a 130mm 8speed wheel, with Campy handlebar end
> > shifters (old, non indexed) and Super Record derailleurs. At risk of
> sounding
> > heretical, I think it's mildly clear that 9 speed and newer, glued or tig
> > welded frames, probably don't count as "classic". I started using Shimano
> 7
> > speed SIS cassette rear hubs because I got tired of breaking Campagnolo
> rear
> > axles. Campy didn't make a cassette hub until the 8 speed, and I'm just
> > getting into those partly because they're obsolete, but mostly because
> > they're Campy and the axles won't break on me. There's also more gears for
> > those around than there are for the Shimanos. I suppose the axle thing is
> > only an issue if you're 175 lbs or more...
> > Food for thought.
> > Stevan Thomas
> > Alameda, CA
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: "Hugh Thornton" <hughwthornton@hotmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:03:31 -0500
> Subject: [CR]Basso dating and info
>
> I decided that what my collection needed was a classic low profile
> time-trial bicycle, seeing as how they went from oddity to being the
> required tool for time trials to being outlawed by UCI regs. They are soon
> to be extinct.
>
> I was very fortunate to get hold of a Basso with lugs and Columbus SL tubes,
> the seat and top tubes being deliciously curvy. Absolutely classic. The
> trouble is that much of the original equipment has been replaced by cheap
> stuff and I want to get it back to period correct. I think the Campagnolo
> C-Record 28h front hub, headset and bottom bracket and the front 650 Mavic
> Mach 2 CD 2 are original. I plan to fit a complete C-Record group but am
> wondering what is the correct generation -- original C-Record? slant
> parallelogram 7-speed? 8-speed cassette? Synchro I, Synchro II or Synchro
> that worked?
>
> Does anyone know how to interpret Basso frame numbers for year of
> manufacture? The number on the bottom bracket is 9101013, which
> superficially looks like 1991 (and dangerously close to off-topic but for
> method of construction), but that is only an assumption. Does anyone know
> for sure? The bb is also stamped 58, but I think that is the seat tube c-c
> dimension.
>
> The Basso head tube decal carries world championship stripes -- did anyone
> ever ride one to a world championship victory?
>
> I would appreciate any info on tha above and on Basso in general.
>
> Many thanks
> Hugh Thornton
> nr Crewe UK
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> To: hughwthornton@hotmail.com
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:28:09 -0500
> Subject: Re: [CR]Basso dating and info
> From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
>
> marino basso* raced for molteni. he won the world
> championship as a professional. i think it was 1971 in
> gap, italy. he kinda' fell into it there.
> e-RICHIE
> united states of america, where
> it's not the judge, but the jury that counts!
>
> *brother of the owner of the basso company,
> though not a principle. i think his brothers
> name is profundo.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:03:31 -0500 "Hugh Thornton"
> <hughwthornton@hotmail.com> writes:
> > I decided that what my collection needed was a classic low profile
> > time-trial bicycle, seeing as how they went from oddity to being the
> >
> > required tool for time trials to being outlawed by UCI regs. They
> > are soon
> > to be extinct.
> >
> > I was very fortunate to get hold of a Basso with lugs and Columbus
> > SL tubes,
> > the seat and top tubes being deliciously curvy. Absolutely classic.
> > The
> > trouble is that much of the original equipment has been replaced by
> > cheap
> > stuff and I want to get it back to period correct. I think the
> > Campagnolo
> > C-Record 28h front hub, headset and bottom bracket and the front 650
> > Mavic
> > Mach 2 CD 2 are original. I plan to fit a complete C-Record group
> > but am
> > wondering what is the correct generation -- original C-Record? slant
> >
> > parallelogram 7-speed? 8-speed cassette? Synchro I, Synchro II or
> > Synchro
> > that worked?
> >
> > Does anyone know how to interpret Basso frame numbers for year of
> > manufacture? The number on the bottom bracket is 9101013, which
> > superficially looks like 1991 (and dangerously close to off-topic
> > but for
> > method of construction), but that is only an assumption. Does
> > anyone know
> > for sure? The bb is also stamped 58, but I think that is the seat
> > tube c-c
> > dimension.
> >
> > The Basso head tube decal carries world championship stripes -- did
> > anyone
> > ever ride one to a world championship victory?
> >
> > I would appreciate any info on tha above and on Basso in general.
> >
> > Many thanks
> > Hugh Thornton
> > nr Crewe UK
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> > http://mobile.msn.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: handsfie@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:55:47 EST
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Teledyne Titan-1st ride
>
> 'Finished my Titan last night. I just came back from the first ride (my
> first ride on any titanium frame). It rides like a dream. I put a steel
> fork on it to avoid any nasty surprises. Fifteen miles in gusty winds. The
> Campy S/R components shifted and stupped perfectly. I have a new favorite
> bike. '35 Hercules roadster, '71 Windsor pro, '73 Teledyne Titan, '92 Masi
> 3V, '99 Cinelli SC. Rod Handsfield, Las Vegas (cold and gusty)
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "swampmtn" <swampmtn@siscom.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Basso dating and info
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:26:58 -0500
>
> Basso won the World's in '72, and wore the rainbow jerwey while racing for
> Bianchi during the '73 season.
>
> Merckx was champion in '71.
>
> Aldo Ross
> Moroe, Ohio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
> To: <hughwthornton@hotmail.com>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Basso dating and info
>
>
> > marino basso* raced for molteni. he won the world
> > championship as a professional. i think it was 1971 in
> > gap, italy. he kinda' fell into it there.
> > e-RICHIE
> > united states of america, where
> > it's not the judge, but the jury that counts!
> >
> > *brother of the owner of the basso company,
> > though not a principle. i think his brothers
> > name is profundo.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:03:31 -0500 "Hugh Thornton"
> > <hughwthornton@hotmail.com> writes:
> > > I decided that what my collection needed was a classic low profile
> > > time-trial bicycle, seeing as how they went from oddity to being the
> > >
> > > required tool for time trials to being outlawed by UCI regs. They
> > > are soon
> > > to be extinct.
> > >
> > > I was very fortunate to get hold of a Basso with lugs and Columbus
> > > SL tubes,
> > > the seat and top tubes being deliciously curvy. Absolutely classic.
> > > The
> > > trouble is that much of the original equipment has been replaced by
> > > cheap
> > > stuff and I want to get it back to period correct. I think the
> > > Campagnolo
> > > C-Record 28h front hub, headset and bottom bracket and the front 650
> > > Mavic
> > > Mach 2 CD 2 are original. I plan to fit a complete C-Record group
> > > but am
> > > wondering what is the correct generation -- original C-Record? slant
> > >
> > > parallelogram 7-speed? 8-speed cassette? Synchro I, Synchro II or
> > > Synchro
> > > that worked?
> > >
> > > Does anyone know how to interpret Basso frame numbers for year of
> > > manufacture? The number on the bottom bracket is 9101013, which
> > > superficially looks like 1991 (and dangerously close to off-topic
> > > but for
> > > method of construction), but that is only an assumption. Does
> > > anyone know
> > > for sure? The bb is also stamped 58, but I think that is the seat
> > > tube c-c
> > > dimension.
> > >
> > > The Basso head tube decal carries world championship stripes -- did
> > > anyone
> > > ever ride one to a world championship victory?
> > >
> > > I would appreciate any info on tha above and on Basso in general.
> > >
> > > Many thanks
> > > Hugh Thornton
> > > nr Crewe UK
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> > > http://mobile.msn.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: "Frank" <frank121@icok.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:40:29 -0600
> Subject: [CR]Tommasini SLX Super Prestige has sold
>
> The Tommasini SLX has sold to a list member. I hope he enjoys it as much as
> I did.
>
> Dale, thank you for the opportunity to buy, sell, and read about classic
> bikes and equipment on the CR forum.
>
> Frank Phillips
> McAlester, OK
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> Reply-To: "Andrew Gillis" <apgmaa@earthlink.net>
> From: "Andrew Gillis" <apgmaa@earthlink.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:07:21 -0800
> Subject: [CR]RE: CR Date Cutoff
>
> All:
>
> The List categories are still Dale's perogative, but I prefer that our CR
> list discussions allow high-end classically styled lugged steel frames of
> any year. It seems to me that the CR interest in lugged steel bikes, with
> their handling and style, could only benefit by continuing the discussion
> to include modern bikes which share the characteristics we appreciate.
>
> Considering that Campy did the wider 130 mm hubs to to accomodate early 7
> speed, I believe that that the 126 mm criteria, although it demarcates a
> definite time period, is otherwise a bit arbitrary.
>
> To strictly define a vintage era to the "classic" requirements would
> unfortunately eliminate my two personal examples:
>
> My 2001 Mercian Strada Special has a frameset style similar to other models
> which have been produced for many years. This new bike is nearly all NOS
> NR/SR equipped, but it has the 130 rear end, which gives a better fit for
> the wider Maillard 7 freewheels (compared to Regina CX/CX-S). It would also
> seem slighty unfair to not include it because I now have to ride Look
> pedals, simply because I can't find any more vintage leather shoes to fit my
> now bigger feet. At least I'm riding it!
>
> The same could be said about my wonderful 1996 Richard Sachs frameset, in
> which the styling and tubeset is the same as many of his earlier, in period
> bikes. The frameset, although "out of period, " is certainly a classic.
> Also, when other weekend riders see me using modern (Ergo 9) parts on it, I
> can assure you that it piques their interest as to why I would put modern
> parts onto a supposedly "old-fashioned" bike. Why? Because I like how it
> rides, and how it looks. That's why!
>
> My $0.02...
>
> Andrew Gillis (intermittent rain, wind, sun, and dark clouds in Long Beach,
> CA)
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:34:21 -0500
> From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
> Subject: [CR]ebay outing
>
> for the man who has everything...
> this is one bitchin' bicycle.
> e-RICHIE
> chester
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:49:03 -0500
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: When-what is the last of C-R years
> From: Steven m Johnson <grisha2@juno.com>
>
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:10:20 EST NortonMarg@aol.com writes:
> > I got tired of breaking Campagnolo rear
> > axles. Campy didn't make a cassette hub until the 8 speed, and I'm
> > just
> > getting into those partly because they're obsolete, but mostly
> > because
> > they're Campy and the axles won't break on me. There's also more
> > gears for
> > those around than there are for the Shimanos. I suppose the axle
> > thing is only an issue if you're 175 lbs or more...
>
> I packed all my racing stuff up when I went in the Army. Nine years later
> I pulled it all out, and broke axles on three 126mm spaced Campy hubs,
> and one Shimano 600. I raced under 170 lbs, and was 185 when I started
> riding the stuff again.
>
> Shimano, Suntour Sealed and Phil Wood hubs solved the problem for me.
>
>
> Steven M. Johnson, Chesapeake, VA
> http://members.home.com/grisha1
> http://www.stevenjohnson.com/
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> From: "David Bilenkey" <dbilenkey@sympatico.ca>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: RE: [CR]ebay outing
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:51:36 -0500
>
> Fortunately (or is that unfortunately?) the other one:
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> is in my size. But it's a little late for our list eh Dale? ;-) But man
> that's pretty.
>
> David Bilenkey
> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Richard M
> Sachs
> Sent: February 17, 2002 6:34 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]ebay outing
>
>
> for the man who has everything...
> this is one bitchin' bicycle.
> e-RICHIE
> chester
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> From: Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [CR]RE: CR Date Cutoff
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:05:27 -0800
>
> The date restriction, arbitrary though it may be, is valuable because many
> of us don't want to belong to a high-volume list that duplicates content
> available elsewhere. Just because most people on this list may be
> interested in a subject isn't good enough - I'm sure most people here are
> interested in the Slobodan Milosovich trial or the figure-skating judging
> scandal. (Sorry, I know this type of meta-discussion doesn't improve the
> s/n ratio, but it seems to be necessary from time to time.)
>
> A 2002 Richard Sachs with Campy 9-speed is a completely modern bike. While
> it'll be a classic someday, I'd prefer we limit the scope more. There are
> other fora to discuss what kind of modern bikes you like to ride. Please
> don't take this as a flame, I'm just stating my preference.
>
> I do like to read about those reproductions of classics, like a new Toei or
> Singer frame with 50s parts on it, so I guess I'm open to some exceptions,
> but I vote for a little more discipline. A hard date cutoff rule with no
> exceptions would be better than the current level of exceptions, in my
> opinion.
>
> Maybe this is a tad pessimistic, but it seems to me that unmoderated mailing
> lists tend to degenerate; as the members most sensitive to list volume and
> quality drop out, the percentage of people who like off-topic chatter goes
> up, which causes the next-most sensitive types to drop out, etc. That's why
> rules, and a moderator who's not afraid to enforce them, are essential.
> Dale will step on a few toes, ya can't please everyone, but a lot of us are
> only here because of the high quality level Dale's stewardship has enabled.
> Some valued members have quit already due to the volume as it is.
>
> Mark Bulgier
> Seattle, Wa
> USA
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> From: LouDeeter@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:06:53 EST
> Subject: Re: [CR]ebay outing-Chris Kvale
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> I just bought one of these Kvale frames from these guys--what a nicely built
> and finished frame! Lou Deeter, Orlando FL "drafting at 180mph today this
> close to Daytona".
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> From: "garth libre" <rabbitman@mindspring.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:13:33 -0500
> Subject: [CR]Classic cut off criteria
>
> The whole year I have belonged to this list, I have struggled with the =
> meaning of classic. I don't like to disagree with Dale's year based =
> definition, mainly because I am a rule follower and consensus builder. =
> In the final hour, Dale's opinion must prevail. I write this to persuade =
> Dale and others to come to my view, at least part way.
>
> For me the classic elements must be MOSTLY in evidence.
> =20
> 1) The frame must be lugged, filet brazed or made during those years for =
> which the age based definition overrides construction method. In other =
> words, aluminum with any construction method would be permitted if it =
> were made pre 1983, but a fine quality steel lugged frame would have to =
> be included even if it were made last month. Any fine steel lugged frame =
> could be considered if it has a high level of craftsmanship, rivaling =
> the finest of the past, or even the average good craftsmanship of the =
> past. The modern frames considered would have to have the spirit of the =
> pride and style that we admire. For example a finely constructed frame =
> would be out of the classic frame of reference if it, for example, had =
> penis shaped lugs. However prideful the construction method, this lug =
> style just had never been employed, and furthermore the spirit of the =
> classic past would be violated. Penis shaped lugs just seem to come from =
> a different and future mind think than, say. the fleur de lys.
>
> 2) Rims are a delicate and expendable item that requires replacement =
> with newer substitutes. Clearly deep aero rims violate the sense and =
> sensibility of the past box section rims. Mildly aero rims were in =
> evidence in the early 80's, and so original mild aero should be =
> considered classic, as should modern mild aero that fits the same mold.
>
> 3) Bar end shifters, down tube shifters and even (UGGH) stem shifters =
> are all plainly classic. (Well maybe not stem shifters, I am not sure, =
> but I am sure I hate them. Nothing could be less classic than brifters, =
> STI, Ergo or whatever delicate garbage the industry tries to force =
> consumers to swallow. I think I could swallow a downtube lever and =
> safely eliminate it, but those brifters would certainly cause a trip to =
> the emergency room.
>
> 4) Seven speeds should stretch anyone's limits but still be included as =
> they were in evidence in those Reagan years. I honestly believe that 8 =
> speeds came in the 90's though. Freewheels as well as freehubs were =
> around, and anything that is 7 looks fine on a classic bike. Wide, wide =
> rear frame spreads, seem out of place on anything classic anyway.
>
> 5) Clips and straps, Look and Time all competed for the early 80's =
> cycling buck. Looks for me are just as classic looking as clips and =
> straps.
>
> 6) Drop parallelograms!!!!!!! Slants are just as classic. We should not =
> eliminate a derailleur just because it hangs at a different angle. =
> Slants had long since made their appearance too.
>
> In a personal note: I am now considering a few track bikes. One is a =
> genuine early 80's model, while another is a Bianchi of unknown vintage. =
> If you can't just look at it and see that it is or isn't classic without =
> looking at a serial number chart, then it is classic IMHO. I would hate =
> to buy the Bianchi and then find out that it was actually manufactured =
> in 1984, and so I would be unable to wax poetic (and scientific) about =
> its virtues and vices, here on this list. If I replace a tube on an old =
> frame is it suddenly unclassic just because it sports a new tube? Will =
> Sophia Loren be a child of the 2000's if she gets an artificial heart =
> valve this year? Let's be flexible. Garth Libre in Surfside Fl. (a =
> community designed and built up during the 40's and early 50's)=20
>
>
>
>
> =20
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 16
> To: rabbitman@mindspring.com
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:36:16 -0500
> Subject: Re: [CR]Classic cut off criteria
> From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:13:33 -0500 "garth libre"
> <rabbitman@mindspring.com> writes:
> For example a finely constructed frame would be out of the classic
> frame of reference if it, for example, had penis shaped lugs.
> However prideful the construction method, this lug style just had
> never been employed, and furthermore the spirit of the classic past
> would be violated. Penis shaped lugs just seem to come from a
> different and future mind think than, say. the fleur de lys.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> huh?
> e-RICHIE
> chester, ct
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:28:44 -0800
> From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Classic cut off criteria
>
> Classic cut off? This list is about old lightweight bikes! Not current
> bikes that are like old bikes. Not current lightweight bikes with old
> parts. Not old lightweight bikes with current parts.
>
> Old lightweight bikes...pre 1985 (1984, that's an 18 year old bike or older).
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, Southern California
> http://www.velo-retro.com (Campagnolo Timeline has just be updated with
> new info!)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 18
> From: "Keith Kessel" <kbkmd@hotmail.com>
> To: richardsachs@juno.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]ebay outing
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:01:35 -0600
>
> This is a sweet frameset. I especially like the Frenched top tube cable.
> I have a custom Hujsak frameset (lugged,SLX,downtube shifters,etc.) that has
> the same setup for the left hand to operate the rear brake.
> checking my bank account now!
> Keith Kessel
> Shreveport, La.
>
> >From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
> >To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >Subject: [CR]ebay outing
> >Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:34:21 -0500
> >
> >for the man who has everything...
> >this is one bitchin' bicycle.
> >e-RICHIE
> >chester
> >
> >http://ebay.com/<blah>
> >_______________________________________________
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 19
> From: NortonMarg@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:19:17 EST
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: When-what is the last of C-R years
> To: questor@cinci.rr.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> When I used the term "obsolete", I meant (technically speaking) "parts no
> longer supported by the manufacturer". I certainly didn't mean "not
> competitive". I'm also part of an active vintage motorcycle scene, where it's
> all "obsolete" compared to the latest, greatest whatever. I not only like the
> vintage stuff, I prefer it. Vintage underground all the way!
> Stevan Thomas
> Alameda, CA
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 20
> From: "David Goerndt" <davidg@iag.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:48:10 -0500
> Subject: [CR]Looking for parts
>
> I'm looking for parts to complete my Masi GC. I need brakes, Nuovo Record,
> excellent or NOS preferred. I'm not sure what year this frame is, so
> anything from '74 to '80. I also need a front and rear derailleur, again NR,
> excellent or NOS. I want to use Campagnolo Super Legerra pedals (the black
> ones), but the chrome ones will work too. I have used parts to build up this
> frame, but I would like to have something new(old) when I'm finished. This
> project is similar to Richard Sachs' Masis, but not necessarily "Period
> Correct". If you have any of the above and are willing to part with them,
> contact me.
>
> thanks
>
> David Goerndt
> Orlando, FL
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 21
> From: "swampmtn" <swampmtn@siscom.net>
> To: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Basso dating and info
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:50:53 -0500
>
> In 1972 Basso won the World's while riding for "Salvarani".
>
> Aldo Ross
> Moron, Ohio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
>
> > did he win in 72 as a molteni-er?
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:42:14 -0500
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> From: Warren & Elizabeth <warbetty@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: RE: [CR]RE: CR Date Cutoff
>
> You should establish some serious timelines when dealing with
> vintage/antique/classic collectables. North American motorcyle groups look
> at classic as being 25 years...British groups are much less tolerant of
> modern machinery and won't include machines that young. This gives their
> groups focus, direction and credibility. I think it's very important to
> maintain a very strict time frame, with certain exceptions being tolerated.
> For example, it's not unworthy of the list to mention modern repro classic
> bikes when there is a context to do so. As long as things don't devolve
> into previews on the 2003 lineup of lugged steel bikes. I do think that
> the" for sale" criteria should be strictly adhered to. There is already a
> huge volume of stuff for sale out there.
>
> Dale will have to be the judge and jury...which seems to be just fine with
> a majority of the list.
>
> Warren Young
> Toronto
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 23
> From: Whirlybirdone@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 00:36:57 EST
> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]new member
>
> Hello,
> Not sure who to direct this to, but I am receiving e-mail from people I don't
> know intended for someone else. Is this how the list is set up? If so, I am
> going to cancel. Maybe I misunderstood something in the sign up, but I am
> not interested in reading mail directed to other people.
> Jay Sexton
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:54:38 -0700
> Subject: Re: [CR]Classic cut off criteria
> From: "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
>
>
> "Brifters" ... now there's a word that needs to die.
>
>
> --
>
> Steven L. Sheffield, USA
> stevens at veloworks dot com
> veloworks at mac dot com
> aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
>
>
>
> > From: "garth libre" <rabbitman@mindspring.com>
> > Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:13:33 -0500
> > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Subject: [CR]Classic cut off criteria
> >
> > 3) Bar end shifters, down tube shifters and even (UGGH) stem shifters are all
> > plainly classic. (Well maybe not stem shifters, I am not sure, but I am sure I
> > hate them. Nothing could be less classic than brifters, STI, Ergo or whatever
> > delicate garbage the industry tries to force consumers to swallow. I think I
> > could swallow a downtube lever and safely eliminate it, but those brifters
> > would certainly cause a trip to the emergency room.
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________


>

>

> End of Classicrendezvous Digest