Hi Chuck,
The answer you seek to your msg below depends on the type of decal you want to reproduce and the materials you want to use... For the Raleigh single color top tube decal transfer "Super Course, Competition, International, and Professional" I use a local guy's services with a Roland PXY plotter/cutter to either a CorelDraw Postscript template cut from mylar or I use a template cut from frisket and carefully spray painted using white/gold enamel and a Paasche VL-1 Airbrush. Cost per page for the template (10+ images) is $5... The vinyl mylar has and expected life of 5+ years without yellowing and the painted on template can last for many years depending on the surface prep, paint you use, and whether you apply a clear coat.
As far as multi-color decals, the Bel Decal company makes a commercial clear-film decal paper that allows a four color or process print job to be printed on the paper. I try to mix a max of 4 solid colors per page (be careful of trapping colors on the image for color separations!) for a process job and cram as many graphics as I can reasonably place on each page. Material cost per sheet is around 10 cents per page and the printing costs are approximately $500 per job with a minimum run of 500 sheets. Once again, I use a local guy for printing so these prices may be higher/lower depending on your area.
Regards, Steve Neago
Cincinnati, OH
> Steve, great reply. Very informative.
>
> Who did you go to to make your decals? Costs involved? I need to have
> some Automoto decals printed (I'm a graphic designer so the artwork is
> no problem) and am looking for good sources.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> Steve Neago wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > No high blood pressure on my part per your response, just concern that
some
> > list members imply that making repro parts is dishonest in some way,
when I
> > do not believe this is the case with the facts at hand. Some CR members
> > seem to believe only the OEM or so-called "experts" can recreate vintage
> > parts. I disagree because repro parts that are not made anymore and not
> > subject to federal trademark or patent laws are fair game to anyone who
> > wants to make duplicate parts. The legal question that needs to
answered
> > about the Campy hoods is not how they are made nor what they are made
of,
> > but solely whether the Campy old-style logo displayed on the hoods is
> > protected by current registration with the federal trademark and patents
> > office.
> >
> > Prehaps some of my ire is raised about claims of "forgery" or "fakes"
> > because I personally make repro Raleigh decals for Super Course,
> > Competition, International, Professional, and Team Pro framesets where I
> > have been criticised by some CR members that my EXACT duplicate decals
> > should have identifying marks they are repro placed on the decal itself
and
> > that I am breaking the federal law in some remote way. This attitude
by
> > critics without researching the facts ignores the goal and intent to
make an
> > exact decal repro that faithfully recreates the look and feel of the
> > original in deference to the original Raleigh company.
> >
> > Raleigh USA has been bought/sold/franchised by several holding companies
> > since these decals were produced over 25 years ago, and Raleigh's
originals
> > decal designs were destroyed over 20 years ago. My subsequent attempts
for
> > 25 years to obtain these decals were met with Raleigh Customer Support
in
> > the USA and England claiming "we don't have and have never seen those"
> > responses. Like the guy reproducing the Campy hoods, I have stepped up
to
> > the plate and now offer factory duplicate parts (decals) that the OEM
> > manufacturer ignores and chooses not to reproduce for whatever reasons.
> >
> > Regarding legal technicalities, I am legally protected by the federal
> > trademark facts that Raleigh never renewed its US trademark name or logo
for
> > its brands in the USA that I reproduce . I have performed an extensive
US
> > trademark search using legal librarians services at my former company
that
> > detail why I have free and unemcumbered use of the Raleigh logos.
Therefore
> > my decal renderings are protected by legal "freedom of speech" as
artistic
> > interpretations and exact reproductions of originals where Raleigh
> > International abandoned its trademark rights long ago.
> >
> > If I choose to file the $5000 USD fee per logo, I could even re-register
and
> > trademark the Raleigh name for myself, but having to defend the
trademark in
> > court could be expensive. And finally from a business standpoint, I have
> > legal grounds to make decal repros, but whomever owns the currently
> > registered Raleigh USA logos could sue me and ask for a court
determination
> > of logo ownership. I would likely win, but would have to expended
> > significant amounts of legal fees to defend my rights.
> >
> > I feel that the guy who makes repro gum hoods and I stand together to
make
> > repro parts that fill a void that manufacturers choose to ignore. If
what
> > we make is legal and ethical, what's your problem with what we do?
> >
> > Regards, Steve Neago
> > "Adjusting from Florida heat to Cincinnati cold!"
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Patrick" <Patrick@aardvark-pro.com>
> > To: "'Steve Neago'" <questor@cinci.rr.com>; "'Jim Cole'"
> > <jcole@memphis.edu>; <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 1:01 PM
> > Subject: RE: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
> >
> > > Wow, Steve. Your blood pressure is getting up there a bit. What this
> > > person is doing by creating these repro hoods is, by definition, a
> > forgery.
> > > You've assigned the negative connotations yourself, which perhaps says
> > > something right there. And come on, the person who is reproducing
these
> > > hoods, whether you agree with it or not (which I'm not taking a stance
on
> > > either way), is infringing on the Campagnolo trade mark and Campagnolo
> > trade
> > > name and does not have the right to do so. Perhaps, in the future,
you
> > > should take a deep breath and relax before you accuse someone of being
> > anal,
> > > as I think this is really not necessary and not quite in the spirit of
the
> > > CR site. But hey, maybe your behavior is just due to the extreme
changes
> > in
> > > climate you've recently encountered and your neurological functions
aren't
> > > quite up to par.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Patrick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> > > [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Steve Neago
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:02 AM
> > > To: Patrick@aardvark-pro.com; 'Jim Cole';
Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
> > >
> > >
> > > A "forgery" (your negative conotation) depends on the view of the
beholder
> > > and depends on why the reproduction was made in the first place.
> > >
> > > An ultra-purist with a strictly show bike would claim these are a
forgery
> > > yet a person with a "rider" bike would shout with glee at obtaining
viable
> > > replacement part. Criticizing repro parts as "forgeries" is getting
anal.
> > >
> > > It all depends on the buyer's perspective. For a rare and practically
> > > unobtainable rubber part to be made available at a reasonable price is
OK
> > by
> > > me... no need to stamp repro parts when it fits my bike!
> > >
> > > Regards, Steve Neago
> > > "Just back from 85 degree Florida vacation to 2 inches of snow in
> > Cincinnati
> > > OH"
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dave Patrick" <Patrick@aardvark-pro.com>
> > > To: "'Jim Cole'" <jcole@memphis.edu>; <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 5:01 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well, I'd better add to this: I don't think duplicating Campy hoods
is
> > too
> > > > difficult to achieve by most "handy" CR members. Part of my
background
> > > > involves lining up protyping of various designs etc., and I think
that
> > the
> > > > necessary products for molds and castings are obtainable if one
wanted
> > to
> > > > "duplicate" this individual's results. I have a strong suspicion
that
> > > we'll
> > > > be seeing quite a few "bootleg" Campy hoods in the very near future,
> > which
> > > > will then result in emails on this site over how to detect "the real
> > > thing"
> > > > from the "forgeries". Are we having fun yet?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dave Patrick
> > > > Chelsea, Michigan
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> > > > [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Jim Cole
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:53 PM
> > > > To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > > > Subject: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Looks like the auction has ended for those reproduction Campy world
logo
> > > > hoods. The final price was $43.00. Guess that's about 1/2 or what
the
> > > > original article brings on ebay these days. Sure hope more become
> > > > available.
> > > >
> > > > http://ebay.com/
> > > >
> > > > Jim Cole
> > > > Memphis, TN