I've been following this thread and couldn't help thinking of all those Schwinns with their electroforged frames sold throughout the years. It would seem to me that this might be an applicable comparison to the current plethora of TIGd bicycles available. Bikes produced for the mass market never achieve the quality and craftsmanship of their hand made counterparts, but it keeps the bike companies in business. I suppose that to some extent the current offerings from manufacturers are nothing more than fluff and marketing. Most of the people I have met in my life would be perfectly happy with a 3 speed with upright handlebars for the type of riding they do, I have to shift the gears on my wife's cross bike whenever the terrain changes - with indexing shifting and those little indicators - she's happier just pedaling along without having to worry about shifting. However stopping at the three speed would have meant the deraileur never having being invented. Don't get me wrong, I'm riding a Rivendell with SunTour Superbe Pro, I prefer lugged frames over welded frames any day of the week. There's a place for the new stuff though. Maybe after enough engineering for marketing's sake they will come out with the next good thing. Using quality and value is subjective in the long run, as what collects the big bucks down the road has less to do with quality and value, and what buyers want (using the price on Ebay for used Sting Rays compared to other bikes)
Greg Groth Chicago, IL.
> Chuck:
>
> 1) Tell me with a straight face that less than 90% of the bikes of any
> material sitting in my (or your) LBS are TIG'ed....
>
> 2) Then tell me with a straight face that the new $3000 TIG'ed "wonder
bike"
> that someone buys today is going to be worth more than $600 just a few
short
> years down the road. Now there's lasting quality and value!!
>
> 3) A decent high-school metal-shop student with a modicum of training and
> access to jigs can (and often does) TIG up a frame.
>
> 4) I have nothing against progress per se (as an experienced Engineer, I
> admire the technology in many newer consumer goods - cars, cameras,
'puters,
> etc.), but I think that planned obsolescence, progress just for progress'
> sake, and "the bicycle as fashion statement" all suck. There is a huge
> difference between a high-quality, carefully thought out and masterfully
> crafted piece of functional art, and something that was zapped together
and
> powder-coated in half a day. Frames today are TIG'ed primarily because
it's a
> fast and cheap way to build a frame.
>
> 5) Classic fillet-brazed does not equal TIG-welded. No comparison IMHO.
>
> Pulling on two pair of Kevlar shorts now just to be extra safe....
>
> Cheers and classic lugged steel is (still!) real,
>
> Greg "retrogrouch" Parker
> A2 MI USA
>
> Where I have not one single index-shifting or clipless-pedal-equipped road
or
> track bike in a rather large fleet*
>
>
>
> *OK, the tandem has Suntour Accushift indexing barcons, but it came to me
> used in that configuration!! I'm now considering retrofitting it to
friction
> just to be even more retro-grouchy!!