Re: [CR]Herse and parts thread/now-"contructeurs?"

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot)

Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David Feldman" <feldmanbike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Herse and parts thread/now-"contructeurs?"
To: Jan Heine <heine@mindspring.com>, Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <a0501041cb936b6cc2e9c@[165.121.40.96]>


An American builder of the style you write of used to live on the East Coast, I think his name was RT Jansen and he advertised "uncommon touring bicycles" in the early 70's. Jim Merz showed me a catalog of his when a customer was requesting something French-style.
David Feldman
Vancouver, WA


--- Jan Heine wrote:


> Wow, Richard, didn't mean to step on your toes. Of
> course, any
> framebuilder can become a constructeur, and many of
> the parts were
> for "coolness" reasons. But then, lugs aren't
> necessary eiter. I am
> sure there was a perceived "reason" a Singer
> fillet-brazed stem was
> better than an aluminum Pivo or Philippe... But
> mostly, it just was
> part of the bike. Singer is a good example (stem
> excepted), because
> they pretty much used what was available. They
> stopped using their
> own brakes once the superior Mafac Racers came
> along. Same about
> front derailleur - starting more or less in the late
> 1950s, they used
> Huret (so did Herse).
>
> That said, a frame/fork kit won't make a good
> randonneur bike.
>
> Fender attachment needs to be carefully considered,
> otherwise they
> won't follow the curve of the wheel gracefully. So a
> randonneur bike
> should come as frame, fork and fenders. Racks, too,
> because elegant
> racks are custom-made, rather than adjustable. Now
> brakes - they need
> to be chosen carefully so they don't interfere with
> the racks and
> fenders. You see, we are getting to a complete bike
> rather quickly.
>
> Nowadays, Singer, Berthoud and a few others still
> work as
> "constructeurs." They use mostly existing components
> - Singer still
> make their stems. So no, you don't need to make your
> own parts,
> although the golden era for ready-made parts were
> the 1970s, and a
> lot of stuff is posing problems these days, most
> notably hubs (no
> more Maxicar that allow spoke replacement on the
> road), lights (none
> for brazed-on fittings) and brakes (most of them
> don't have
> clearance, and a fender that moves when the brake is
> applied won't
> do, sorry.)
>
> In their time, there were at least 2 dozen
> constructeurs all over
> France. Most made a few parts, nobody as many as
> Herse. I'd say the
> few years after WW II until 1955 were the best time,
> because bikes
> were a status symbol, so there was a large market.
> With the advent of
> cheap cars, bikes became the opposite, a symbol of
> poverty and
> backwardsness. Only a few diehards continued to ride
> and buy
> expensive bikes.
>
> Makers I can think of right now, besides Herse and
> Singer: Jo Routens
> (stem, front derailleur, racks), Goƫland (racks,
> pedals?), Narcisse,
> Faure, Maury, Daudon, Baras (aluminum frames,
> aluminum racks). And
> there were many unknowns, like the maker of my
> Ondet/Lyon.
>
> In other countries, I can think of Jack
> Taylor/Britain (who used
> French parts for his touring bikes),
> Mariposa/Canada. Italy seems to
> have been focused on racing, although I have heard
> of a few early
> touring bikes. Germany has never produced much of
> note. Any other
> bikemaking country? I know there were a few people
> making
> French-style bikes in the U.S. in the 1970s. Anybody
> got more info?
>
> Look at a Rivendell, and you realize why it is hard
> to make a
> "randonneur" bike with ready-made parts. The bike
> may work great, but
> it just doesn't look elegant. Can't look elegant,
> with clamps,
> zip-ties and other accroutements. So most people
> ride them without
> fenders and racks, you are back to a racing bike -
> sort of like a
> Cinelli Supercorsa.
>
> A randonneur truly is a unit - you don't just take a
> part off and
> replace it with another. That can be a drag (say the
> front derailleur
> breaks and no replacements are available that fit
> the special
> braze-on), but the benefit is a bike that works,
> because each part is
> designed to work together. Also, it was common to
> have a bike updated
> once in a while, so you'd take it back to Herse, who
> would put the
> newest derailleurs on and a new paintjob, too.
>
> The frames of Herse, etc., were nicely made, but
> ornate lugwork was
> not their thing. The elegance came from being
> extremely functional,
> not from a swirl and a curl here and there. Maybe
> the cheap Nervex
> lugs spoiled that - cheap bikes could look ornate,
> so the
> "constructeurs" had to come up with something else
> to distinguish
> their wares. Instead, the tubing was carefully
> selected to match the
> rider and purpose. Herse went further than most and
> used a lot of
> oversize tubing. How do you like a 1950 tandem (open
> frame) with a 32
> mm downtube, 30 mm top tubes, and I forget what
> diameter seat tubes.
> No wonder the thing rides wonderfully despite the
> lack of bracing,
> unlike other tandems from the era.
>
> Just as an example, on my beloved Rivendell, today I
> filed off part
> of the Lumotec front light, because it was very
> close to the spokes.
> The light is mounted on a home-made stainless
> bracket on the front
> dropout. It was never intended to be mounted there,
> but the standard
> location (in front of the brake) is taken up by the
> handlebar bag.
> Plus, the standard bracket (cheap pressed steel)
> broke during the
> last PBP (when I didn't use a handlebar bag yet), so
> a better
> solution had to be found. (I should have asked the
> maker of the rack
> to include a mount for the light, but I prefer a
> lower beam that is
> horizontal and illuminates distant road signs, for
> navigation.) So I
> basically became a "constructeur" when I modified
> the light to fit on
> a home-made bracket. Same with the rear lights - I
> don't want
> something that is clamped on and starts to slip in
> the middle of an
> event. (Last year, I rode S2S, our cross-state race,
> with two guys,
> both of whose rear lights had moved and were shining
> at the
> pavement.) So I had to make my own brackets, put on
> braze-ons that I
> specified to the builder. You want to hear more...?
> You see, I'd
> rather not bother and get a bike that is ready to
> ride.
>
> This is not to devalue racing bikes, which are
> light, beautiful and
> great fun to ride. I have several... They just are
> not my choice for
> 400 km or more in the rain without stopping. Nor
> with 50 lbs of
> luggage around the Andes. For the latter two
> purposes, there are
> specially conceived bikes, and they do the job well.
>
> Jan Heine, Seattle
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