whoa, Phil. You leaving beautiful LA for the Bay area?
If so...you lucky dog!
Good luck!
Charles
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> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Bob Jackson (Chuck Schmidt)
> 2. RE: The concept of Constructor (goodrichbikes)
> 3. Re: Frame building skills (davebohm)
> 4. Re: Frame building skills (Philcycles@aol.com)
> 5. de rosas (C. Andrews)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 10:52:49 -0700
> From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> To: Classic Rendezvous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Bob Jackson
>
> Jerry & Liz Moos wrote:
> >
> > I think snake-oil-vendor is a bit harsh for Ernesto
Colnago. Certainly the
> > quality of Colnago does not compare to a Baylis, a
Sachs, or a Confente, but
> > they are not his competition, His competition are the
other firms supplying
> > the pro peleton - Bianchi, Peugeot, Gitane, Pinarello,
etc. The first three
> > I believe are all owned by the same conglomerate and
produce pretty much the
> > same TIG'ed aluminum frames painted in different colors.
>
> I think you need to look into what exactly Bianchi Reparto
Corsa bikes
> are Jerry. That's a pretty outrageous claim you make
above (and
> erroneous to boot).
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> SoPas, SoCal
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "goodrichbikes" <goodrichbikes@netzero.net>
> To: <rocklube@adnc.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: RE: [CR]The concept of Constructor
> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:53:17 -0500
>
> Brian,
> That sounds like a fun project. I think that 8cm of drop
is a little too
> much for a 650 wheeled bike. I don't know what wheel
radius you are using
> but I don't think a 28 or 30mm tire with 8cm of drop will
result in a
> 10.25" BB height.
>
> Curt Goodrich
> (who thinks 26" wheels are little more practical but lack
cache)
> Minneapolis, MN
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of
Brian Baylis
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 7:39 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]The concept of Constructor
>
>
> Listmembers,
>
> With all of the recent talk about constructor as opposed
to framebuilder
> I finally made the decision (which would have happened
eventually) to
> proceed on the design of a "complete" bicycle somewhat
along the lines
> of the Rene Herse. To be honest touring per se is not my
personnal
> interest in cycling. But at my age there's nothing like a
new challange
> and an opportunity to expand my horizions and experience
by indulgeing
> in something "different". I would like to present the
concept that I
> have decided to follow in the design and purpose of such a
bicycle. I
> would like the imput from the touring oriented listmembers
in regards to
> the concept I have in mind.
>
> Here it goes.
>
> First, my purpose for this bike is what I will call "light
touring". Not
> fully loaded and not for camping expeditions. The bike
itself has been
> designed for long day rides or a few days touring with
approiate gear
> but overnights would be supported or in motels. The
capacity of the bags
> will be a bit less than that of the full boat rig. In my
case I had to
> design the bike around 650c wheels in order to make room
for racks,
> bags, and fenders and still have the bike be my size. The
frame is 52cm
> c-t which gives me a head tube length of 129mm even with a
low bb height
> (8cm drop,10 1/4" bb height), and enough clearance for
fenders and brake
> reach of 55mm. Normally such a frame on 700c wheels would
give me barely
> enough head tube for the lugs and no room for a front bag
and rack.
> Without the front bag part of my concept isn't possible.
For any other
> situation other than a dwarf such as myself, 700c wheels
are the only
> way to go except for 650B which doesn't buy me much room.
I'm willing to
> accept the rim and tyre limitations in order to make the
bike properly.
> And actually the 650c wheels fit into my concept quite
well otherwise.
> Damn, I might have to make my own 650c x 28 tyres someday.
>
> The main concepts I intend to work to are two things; AERO
touring and a
> "Quick disconnect convertable" bike. My design for lights
and bags will
> focus on making an integral headlight and front bag that
is areodynamic
> in design to give the front of the bike a cleaner profile
while riding
> fast. Most bags are clunkey looking and most deffinately
not areo. The
> bag is there so why not make it perform an additiomal
function? There
> will be semi small front low rider bags designed with the
same areo
> profile and function. I intend to make both front and rear
racks in two
> peices so that the upper part will include the light and
generator
> system for either front or rear lights without the
neccessity of having
> the full rack or bags on the bike. The reason for this I
will explain
> shortly. The Quick disconnect feature for fenders, racks
and bags will
> allow one to strip the bike from full set up to a day
rider (or a
> commuter to the store without having to take everything
you own with
> you) within one minute. Since each part is modular any
combination of
> bike plain, bike with light and/or fenders, or the whole
thing is easily
> done instantly. The rear racks, lights, and bags will
follow the same
> concept of areodynamic design and modular quick disconnect
function. My
> other intention is to come up with fittings that are as
close to
> invisable as possible when the bike is not loaded. It will
look and ride
> like any comfortable day rider without the gear.
>
> Does this sound like a practical concept to you touring
types? Frankly
> I'm quite excited about this project. I already have 2 or
3 persons
> standing in line for one of these, so I'm sorry to say I
can't add
> anything else to my order book for a year or two. If
anyone who already
> has orders in wants to get in on this that will be no
problem. The first
> one will be mine (as usual) so I can work out the details
for myself
> before offering them up to the public. Possibly by Le
Cirque next year I
> might have something to look at. I also intend for the
"styling" to be
> French including the custom lugged stem. I may have to
make my own
> fenders to get what I want for style and fit for a 650c
wheel. Won't
> that be fun? Hell YES!
>
> I've got to run an errand now, I'll check back later to
see what fish
> are on the line. Thanks to anyone who is willing to help
me out on this.
> There will be plenty of discussion on components selection
forthcomming.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> For a guy with no brains, there sure seems to be a lot of
noise
> rattleing around in there.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "davebohm" <davebohm@cox.net>
> To: "Dennis" <dennis@mrpconsulting.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Frame building skills
> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:17:30 -0700
>
> I thought this an interesting question. I have mixed
emotions about =
> this. =20
>
> There are but a dozen or so builders turning out great
lugged frames in =
> the U.S. It is a concern of mine that once this group
retires or leaves =
> the biz there would not necessarily be builders who
replace them. =
> Framebuilding is alive and well in the states but I have
noticed that =
> many of the newest builders specialize in TIG welding and
although they =
> have an appreciation for lugged bikes have no intention of
learning the =
> trade or doing it for their own satisfaction.
>
> It is hard for the experienced ones to impart their
knowledge because of =
> the time involved in teaching a student. The concept of
apprentices is =
> an anachronism. There are but a few places one can go to
work and get =
> paid and make lugged frames anymore.
>
> I don't know if I am the youngest in this group. Probably
close and I =
> have learned what I know so far a little differently than
Brian, Richard =
> and the others. When I first started there were no places
to go work =
> for, asking one of these guys to teach me with no prior
experience =
> would not have gone over well. Jeez, to be honest I
hadn't even seen a =
> lot of lugged frame being it was the early nineties and
they were =
> already going away then. So I attended United Bicycle
Institute. This =
> is the main educational avenue right now. I took a two
week class. =
> What that gave me was a quick introduction into what I
would need and =
> the general process.
>
> I think the thing going for me is my prior silversmithing
experience. =
> The fancy stuff, which is usually the hard part for most
is the easiest =
> for me. The actual construction process was the hard
part. I really =
> wished I had a mentor for this so I would not have made so
many =
> experiments as I like to put it. I have to say that
everyone is fairly =
> open about how to do things and I have gotten invaluable
information =
> from many on this list and I thank them for that.
Sometimes with =
> certain things I am a little tight lipped, but if someone
really wants =
> to know and shows a propensity for it I will tell them.
>
> I think there will always be a few classic builders. If
there is a will =
> there is a way.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> David Bohm
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Dennis=20
> To: Classics=20
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:52 AM
> Subject: [CR]Frame building skills
>
>
> With all the frame builders out there turning out
beautifully =
> constructed
> lugged frames, what (if anything) are they doing to pass
on their =
> trade? It
> would be a shame to loose all that knowledge when they
"expire".
>
> Dennis Stover
> Arleta, CA
> http://home.ix.netcom.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: Philcycles@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:20:02 EDT
> Subject: Re: [CR]Frame building skills
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
>
> In a message dated 6/29/2 6:16:49 PM, davebohm@cox.net
writes:
>
> >I think there will always be a few classic builders. If
there is a will
> >there is a way.
> >
> >
> Aside from the metalworking skills, all I know about
framebuilding I learned
> from staring at bicycles.
> Phil Brown
> Packing for a return to the Bay Area in NoHo, Ca
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> From: "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>
> To: <nickzz@mindspring.com>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:02:00 -0700
> Subject: [CR]de rosas
>
> I would put an early de rosa right at the top of my list
at
> this point. the early/mid 70s frames are as tasty, or
> tastier, than anything else out there, then, or now. And
> they ride to die for. Them low bb shells ya know.
>
> Problem is, there was very little importation of De Rosas
> until the 80s, so finding an early 70s De Rosa (let alone
a
> 60s frame--talk about the holy grail!), is not unlike
trying
> to find a needle in a haystack...very, very difficult.
> Masis and Colnagos were easier to see and buy..hence their
> popularity with us over-the-hill geezers...but I'd love an
> early 70s de rosa, and every single serious vintage hound
I
> know around here would like to have one too..
>
> The De Rosas that made it to this country in any quantity
> (far as I can tell) are 80s frames and use cast lugs.
Very
> nice. But not as nice as the 70s iron.
>
> Charles "70s de rosa? Dream on!" Andrews
> So Cal
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest