Like Brian said, if there are 100 people who want an item and only three of the item, the direction of pricing is obvious. Confente and Herse frames, besides their great intrinsic quality, benefit from the fact that their original builders are long dead and the bikes are no longer produced, while one can still order a new Cuevas. Sachs and Baylis frames may never achieve the prices of a Confente simply because Richard and Brian, thankfully for us all, have enjoyed healthy, productive, and already much longer lives so they have already produced more frames than Confente did under his own name, and hopefully they will continue to add to those numbers for some years to come. Besides the scarcity, a lot depends on name recognition and image (or maybe mojo). Herse and Confente have come to have an exclusive and legendary image in no small part through the activities of this list and the frequent mention in the recent past in Bicycle Trader or on the Bicycle Classics web site. Herse's image has also be boosted by the marque's constant discussion and display in enthusiast circles in Japan. While Cuevas is certainly highly regarded in collector circles, he simply has not received the same level of attention. Illogical things still do occur in the market and quality alone does not determine price. Last year I bought a Arthur Caygill Audex frame entirely custom built by Richard Kent, with my choice of pattern in the hand-cut, chromed lugs, plus lights and custom built racks, shipped to me from UK, for right at $1000, a price at which Rivendell had given up trying to sell the non-custom Heron frames because they couldn't make any money. Now, I certainly respect the Rivendell Heron frames, but the Caygill is a much better frame for a price Rivendell found unrealistically low. Go figure. In the end, any process, including the marketplace, which involves human beings will be somewhat illogical.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Houston, TX
> Okay, so I followed the whole Confente discussion, agreeing,
> disagreeing, rolling my eyes, etc. I even thought of a few things to
> say, but in the end I spared you all. I've been fascinated and shocked
> since joining this group and viewing the E-Bay links you post. Wow, the
> prices! I've refrained from asking why a Rene Herse sells for so much.
> And the Confente....holy crap!
>
> I mean, I can figure out a lot of the reasons, quality, scarcity, and of
> course, a segment of the population with enough money to indulge their
> whims.
>
> But here's what finally moved me to comment: I've been watching that
> auction for the Cuevas bike. Yeah, I know it was a tourer, but so are
> some of the other big ticket bikes. The Cuevas reached $440 and stalled.
> Never reached it's reserve. Now, I own a Cuevas frame and would love to
> have another. Maybe I should just collect those frames, how many could
> be out there? So why was no one interested in this bike? Are his frames
> poorly regarded? I'm asking this question in all sincerity, I really
> want to know.
> I've enjoyed the miles I put on my Cuevas. And enjoyed getting to know,
> and working with Francisco. Probably my feelings about the bike are
> colored by my feelings about the builder.
>
> I suppose I value my bike because of what it represents to me. The
> places I've been on it, that part of my life that I put it together. I
> doubt anyone would ever be willing to pay what it is worth to me. I
> would love to see my son ride and appreciate it some day. I'll bet a lot
> of you have one bike in your collections that you feel the same way
> about. Never mind the dream bikes, let's hear about the one bike you'd
> never part with.