I have only sold one frame and bought one bike via the internet. I have bought and sold other items (mostly mechanical watches) though. Here's my take on it. I did my best as a seller to describe my item's condition as accurately as possible. Also I put what I considered a fair price on it. I basically put myself in the buyer's shoes (being a buyer myself this wasn't hard to do) - would I expect to see the item I'm getting in the condition it comes in ? Would I consider what I paid a decent price where neither I nor the seller would feel slighted ? In fact I actually did my best to give the buyer a pleasant surprise - better condition than I described (a nitpicky description if you will).
As a buyer I like to contact the seller - via the phone if possible - especially if I'm talking about large amounts of money. This helps to get a better feel for who I'm dealing with. I'll ask questions about the item giving them every opportunity to be forthright on the condition, reason for sale... I've even struck up a friendship or two this way.
All that said I've had nothing but successful transactions as a seller and nothing but delightful dealings as a buyer. I've found the vast majority of folk I've dealt with to be honest and helpful and truly wanting to make a good deal all around. Maybe I've just been lucky so far.
John Price Denver, CO
-----Original Message----- From: wspokes@penn.com [mailto:wspokes@penn.com] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:51 PM To: Art Smith Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Bike Ethics 101
Hi Art and all
Interesting question! There is a statement in the content below which disturbs me, a little. I try not let anyone rent any space in my head. Whether it is a $5 or a $500, if you are aware it is bent, just state the facts. There is not mystery in that logic. If I were to buy a bike at $5, I would probably already suspect something was wrong but I would darn well expect that person to fess up. And it would get me also wondering where would the seller or the LBS draw the line? $50, $100?? At what point is it worth it for them to tell the truth? If there would be any hesitation in the answer, I would doubt their integrity. I try to describe things honestly. ex. the crank arms are structurally sound but this sucker is scratched up bad. not described as "shop worn". I got a "shop worn" frame once and let me tell you, the guy was lucky I didn't hand deliver it back to him through the front window of the shop!! If something is different when an item arrives as compared with how i described it, I didn't understand it was supposed to be like that or I didn't have the knowledge but mostly I would even let people know I didn't know for sure. I would expect the same in return. I wouldn't assume a Bill Clinton policy on this one of "don't ask, don't tell" nor would I assume a GW Bush policy of flat out lying. I would expect similar treatment in return. Interesting question, should have some interesting responses.
Walter Skrzypek Falls Creek, Pa http://www.fallscreekoutdoorgear.com
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:32:10 -0700 Art Smith <ahsmith49@cox.net> wrote:
Previous discussions about replicas etc. got me to thinking about what's involved and expected as appropriate disclosure when buying and selling vintage bikes. I operate under the idea that as a buyer, it's my responsiblity to check, inspect, ask appropriate questions, etc. about a bike before I buy it. If I miss something, mismatched parts, dings, etc. it seems that I can't blame the seller. If I ask a specific question I expect an honest answer. I'm pretty clear about what it takes from a buyer's perspective. The seller's position is not as clear to me. Throwing this question around some old timers at my LBS this was the final wrap up. Let's say I know a frame is slightly bent. As a seller what is my reponsibility to a buyer? The conclusion was that if it's a $500 bike you tell the seller. If it's a $5 bike you don't. I get the point here, but it's still not very clear. E-bay compounds the problem because you really can't see what you're buying and have to trust, at times blindly, the seller. So what do you think. Is it buyer beware? If there is a structural problem to you offer that info...on e-bay and at live sales like swaps? Do you tell the buyer if the parts aren't original whether you're asked or not? I'm curious. I've sold stuff in person and felt comfortable about it, but have avoided e-bay because I haven't felt like I could verbally describe a bike in the same way a potential buyer could inspect it. Especially if it is high dollar. Any horror stories either way on this subject?
Art Smith Thinking about a fixed gear/track bike and open to any opinions off line Phoenix