Nice you see that this discussion is bringing folks out of wood work. I think I should clarify a couple of things about what myself and others have said. First there are two arguments here, one is what's classic vs. classic inspired and the second is what is "on-topic." These need to be looked at as two separate issues. Rivendell bikes are most definitely on-topic, but using the list definition they are not classic but classic inspired. Some builders fall into some grey areas. Brian's Wizard's and Masi's are absolute classics, but a modern Baylis frame is classic inspired??? The same goes for other folks like Sachs and Lyon who have been building very similar frames for the past 30 years. Classifying these folks as classic or classically inspired is quite difficult. On the other hand Rivendell wasn't even an idea when when the loose "classic" cut off date of the mid-80s is reached. Grant created Riv 10 years after the cut off date, thus they were inspired by classic design and not from the classic era.. I'm not even going to get into Klein's and Hi-E's right now. Everything clear as mud now?
Also for some of you new members most of the bickering we do on the list is between friends. If I go toe-to-toe with Chuck, e-richie, or any one else of the "old guard" we're all still friends. This list has almost been a love fest since I rejoined a couple of months ago. There are a lot of opinions and backgrounds on the list and many times "the facts" are viewed and debated from diametrically opposed positions*. Some topics have been beaten like the proverbial horse and they will continue to be. There will always been a new member who needs to ID a Masi or know the date of a Campy crank with an 11 in a box. If you don't like the discussion or think that there is some unanswered question, ask a question. At worst it'll be like my tandem question and get 2 responses. Maybe though it'll start a week long debate and debate is the spice of life. . . .and the list. enjoy, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
* for an excellent example of this follow this link to the bottom of
the page and download the Masi-Confente-Medici story
<http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~mkirklan/classiclinks.html>.
--
++++++++++++++
"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody
did something everything would get done."
--Gil Scott-Heron--
++++++++++++++
Elfie and Monkeyboy's Wurld uv Wunder
http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/
++++++++++++++