Hi Gang,
Interesting talk below. Torque counts wither dry or lubed and most BB axles are usually lubed a little even if wiped off.
Having said this, this controversy is very classic as it all started as I remember from the clear wax paper Campagnolo instruction sheet included with crank in the NR days. As I recall (subject to correction) the text was translated directly from Italian to English in a most literal way.
It read something like this "On the central movement axle junction do not use only Campagnolo grease." The wording was different but the intent and the development of an urban bike shop legend that has passed from father to son for generations.
The correct translation (anyone have access to these and speaks Italian) should have been translated as, "Never use anything on your stinkin Campagnolo bottom bracket axle except genuine, blended by retired Giro domestiques, Campagnolo grease. You will find it in the little white jar with the blue top and the blue script you trust, at bike shoppes everywhere."
Now on the above I could be wrong technically on the intent but the facts are strong.
There must be exceptions as there are many potential variables but I have always and will always grease my spindles for the following reasons and will continue to do so for the following reasons.
\u2022 In thirty years of servicing racing and other fine quality bikes I have never worn out or broken a high grade crank. \u2022 I have never installed a crank with the correct axle new that pulled up too far. \u2022 I have never had a crank get stuck on the axle that as installed with grease. \u2022 I have never had a greased crank strip out its extractor threads while trying to remove it. \u2022 I have removed hundreds of seized cranks with violent force that were installed without grease. \u2022 I have removed hundreds of cranks that the extractor treads were stripped by the appropriate removal tool with violent force that were installed without grease. \u2022 Greasing the cranks usually removes the annoying clicking/ ticking noise that presents itself when the crank is not greased. \u2022 I have seen many cranks fail at the bottom bracket axle area. They were eaten away as if by acid. No evidence of any lubrication was present if it existed. \u2022 If is a well known mechanical fact (that may be somewhat obscure in the bicycle industry) that dissimilar metals when forced tightly together often form an acid that will "weld" them chemically to each other. This is very common with Titanium and aluminum parts but many people have experienced seized stems, seatposts, freewheels and pedals. Crank arms while not threaded are certainly a tight pressure fit and the results have been similar to the above examples in my experience.
On the classic old bike shop tale that by greasing the BB axle will allow the crank to slide too far up the axle and cause poor chainline or even strike the frame I must remind everybody that Campagnolo cranks for many reasons often did not slide far enough onto the axle to provide good chainline on many bicycles.
In the good ole days (I speak of the early 70's to about 1980) few alignment standards for chainline were standardized between manufacturers and clearances (chainstay to chainwheel) often varied from bike to bike of the same brand and model. Consequently Campagnolo (see Sutherlands) offered a smorgasbord of bottom bracket axles to arrive at the proper clearance and chainline (if possible) for the consumer.
In todays world both Campagnolo and Shimano both offer just two common axle lengths for double and triple cranks respectively and manufacturers have cleaned up there act a very good bit.
Issues of torque, weather, sweat and salt corrosion all can affect the above but my experience falls heavily on the greased side of the aisle.
Again, if you grease other alloy / steel junctions why not the crank. Grease ye axles as Tullio must have intended and if you are fussy, use the stuff in the little white jar you trust.
Of course if a translation of the original text says otherwise I would still grease my axles for decades of trouble free service and to avoid premature failure of components.
As a timely piece of long term advice. Remove all threaded parts (should be lubed parts) from your bicycle frame (pedals, and freewheels too) every year to prevent seizing. I suppose if you rarely ride it, only in dry weather and never sweat on it you could double or triple this time frame easily without worry. If something gets stuck and you lubed it (possible) you jut waited too long.
Yours in Cycling,
Gilbert Anderson Raleigh, NC USA
In a message dated 8/2/02 7:15:08 AM, mark@bulgier.net writes:
<<
Joe Bender-Zanoni wrote
>
> There is one part of Jobst's analysis that is very flawed.
> Campy says to set them up dry and that is where the chainline is
> correct. If you grease them, they slide up further on the taper.
Joe, with all due respect, they don't slide up there by themselves. Unless
I'm missing something, seems like the only way a crank can go too far up the
taper is if the mechanic keeps on wrenching after the point where the crank
is just right. Ya gotta know when to say when!
The torque required to get it there is less with grease, but it is more
predictable and repeatable than dry. Especially since "dry" almost always
has *some* lube, varying amounts, unless it was specially degreased, which
nobody does. The tightness of the press fit is the same in either case for
a given chainline, being determined by the geometry of the pieces and their
modulus of elasticity; only the tension on the bolt, and the torque required
to get it there, are lower when the taper is greased. This is not a bad
thing.
Those that say they've seen cranks ruined by grease: aren't you leaving
something out? Namely the other side of the coin - you really should be
adding "...and I've *never* seen a crank ruined that was assembled dry".
Otherwise what you're saying is, you've seen cranks ruined both ways, but
you don't attribute the failure of the dry ones to their being dry. Without
some more scientific inquiry, I'd say this is illogical. I've seen more
ruined cranks that were assembled dry than were greased, but I don't
attribute this to anything other than the fact that more cranks get
assembled dry.
Whether they get ruined or not has to depend more on other factors, notably
overtightening.
Mark Bulgier
Seattle, Wa
USA >>
Gilbert Anderson
The North Road Bicycle Company
your bicycle outfitter
519 W. North St.
Raleigh, NC 27603
USA
ph toll free in USA :800/321-5511
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E-Mail: cyclestore@aol.com