Re: [CR]Rare vs. Desireable

(Example: Production Builders:Pogliaghi)

From: <CYCLESTORE@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 04:37:34 EDT
Subject: Re: [CR]Rare vs. Desireable
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

On our classic bikes compared to balloon tired bikes (also someahte classic),

Ballon tired bike collectors are seeking (and many collect classic bikes as well) something totally different. When comparing to Singers and Herses in rarity (There are lots of them; uh where?) compared to say a very collectible 1930-1950's Schwinn. Schwinns and similar ballooners were made by the thousands and was as much of a production product then as Trek is now. The others I mention were built in dozens some years. One at a time for each customer, many made to measure.

On the scarcity issue anyone going to some of the major swap meets wile find little of nothing in a Singer, Rene Herse class bike but like in Saline thousands of ballooners. There made thousands in dozens of factory's for decades. Some are in poor condition that befits the class of product it was; a relatively cheap consumer item, and most have been discarded which does increase their rarity. I would venture to guess a very high percentage (80+ plus maybe) of made to measure Herse style bikes still survive. Not stolen by infidels or severely crashed.

Just perspective,

Gilbert Anderson, Raleigh, NC USA

<<The bike in question has all the things you've listed above, plus

true scarcity. What I'm about to say is annoy a bunch of people on

the list but it's true and need to be said. When it comes to bike

collecting lightweight collectors are total wankers compared to the

balloon tire folks. Those of us on the list that have been in that

world know. On this list we talk a lot about how the Japanese

collectors are just crazy, but this is just standard operating

procedure in the fat-tire world. 95% of the people on this list like

old bikes but really aren't collectors.

Also I don't think many on this list can actually see the validity in

the ballon-tire bikes. In cars it's like having the horseless

carriage people and the souped up Honda guys looking at each others

cars. It's a totally different aesthetic and history issue. I'm

sure most of the balloon-tire folks look at a the prices paid for

Herse's and say, "Why? It's French, modern, and there's a bunch of

them. . . . plus those skinny tires." It's all in your viewpoint and

what you're willing to do to have truly scarce bikes.

enjoy,

Brandon"monkeyman"Ives

Not a real collector in

Santa Barbara, Calif. >>

In a message dated 8/9/02 12:18:49 PM, goodrichbikes@netzero.net writes:

<< I think if you are looking to pick a fight by name calling, you should

better describe how lightweight collectors are "wankers." Define what is a

"wanker" and how does one "wank?" Are there varying degrees of "wankage?"

Also, does "wankery" reduce mojo? Certainly name calling does. Lighten up.

Curt Goodrich

Minneapolis, MN

-----Original Message-----

From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org

[mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Brandon Ives

Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:40 AM

To: John; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Subject: Re: [CR]Rare vs. Desireable

At 6:51 AM -0700 8/9/02, John wrote:
>I think Ken's point is: Rare does not necessarily equal desireable. And
>that rarity is only one of the things that determines value.
>
>So, sure, that bike is rare... but, what else is driving the price up?
>
>In the case of Herse, Singer, and others, there is craftsmanship,
>innovation, beauty, reliability, quality of materials, utility, etc.

The bike in question has all the things you've listed above, plus