snipped from below... Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com> writes: 1) "The best racing bikes are made of alturnative materials in my opinion." 2) "Lugged steel frames are for the old and nostalgic." 3) "Only us old guys are willing to spend big bucks for a lugged steel 'artistic' frame." 4) "Steel is old technology. Some people like old technology."
1) why is that? 2) lugs represent a joining process, nothing else. if time and money are not an issue, it is a fine and viable joining process. most framebuilders live outside the lines of commerce, ergo using lugs to join tubes needn't represent nostalgia; it can also represent the vanguard. 3) nearly all my clients, 'specially the ones queued up presently, are a good deal younger than me. 4) if you are going to invoke name like 'stradivari', you should consider that what (we) do is not technology, but technique.
e-RICHIE chester, ct
On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:05:09 -0800 Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com>
writes:
> Richard,
>
> Since I have been out riding lately I've noticed something about
> "racers" and non-racers in my area. Here in San Diego we're pretty
> hip
> on cycling trends I think. In the past I too would be a racer. This
> is
> what I have observed about "racers" and steel frames here. No one
> who is
> really racing is riding anything other than Ti, Aluminium, or
> carbon.
> There might be a few cheap guys who can only afford to ride a
> tigged
> steel frame out there, but I haven't seen them. When I WAS racing,
> except on the track where I felt safe, I rode anything but a Baylis
> frame. That goes double for training crits. I actually rode a
> Japanese
> built Schwinn Paramount OS that I got thru the club. Everyone else
> at
> the time rode Cannondales and such to race on; now it's Ti and
> carbon.
> The notion of racing in a modern peloton on a steel frame is
> unthinkable
> to me. The best racing bikes are made of alturnative materials in
> my
> opinion. I would probably ride plastic if I were to take up racing
> again.
>
> Blasphamy! No. It's reality. I don't have to hang around these guys
> very
> long to know that steel is real only OUTSIDE of racing circles, and
> even
> then in a very small arena. The common cyclist in this area is a
> serious
> weight weenie and only new and light gets their attention. Steel
> frames
> are for antique collectors like myself. Most old timers still have
> an
> old steel bike in the stash, but very few cyclists these days have
> nothing but steel frames. I would be one of them. That would change
> if I
> raced on the road. Actually a Holland Ti for 650c wheels would be
> my
> race bike. In the meantime, I ride my "antiques" with these guys to
> stimulate thought and deepen their appreciation for fine bicycles.
> It
> makes a much better impression at the top of the mountains than it
> would
> if everyone was slurping coffee and donuts while a group of geeks
> stand
> around and look at the "freak" in the local bike shop.
>
> Lugged steel frames are for the old and nostalgic. Practical still
> for
> the tourist. Even most recreational or weekend warrior types don't
> ride
> or care about traditional frames. The market is very small. People
> who
> like personal and handcrafted things might see the charm in the old
> ways. Only us old guys are willing to spend big bucks for a lugged
> steel
> "artistic" frame. A beautiful custom made lugged steel frame is
> only
> practical to a few. The ride, the joy of riding, the benifits of
> cycling
> are not diminished one bit while riding such a frame. For the few
> the
> sensation is enhanced. If you know how to enjoy cycling then any
> bike is
> practical. The rest of it is in your mind. Personally my cycling
> experiences are greatly enhanced when I ride a bike of my own
> construction down a mountain at over 50 mph with complete confidence
> and
> abandon. Unfortunately, I am the only person in the world that can
> experience that. Other bikes give me pleasures as well. If a bike
> is
> only good if it's for racing, then I don't want good. I see a
> possibility that after persons only slightly younger than myself
> are
> gone, that the golden era of lugged steel frames will submerge from
> our
> culture. But I think that before the ship goes down completely
> there
> should be a few "Stradivaris" laying about. Someone has to make them
> and
> someone has to buy them.
>
> These are just my observations of the local riders and my personal
> experience as a "racer" for all intents and purposes. I may even
> take up
> a little track work if I get much fitter. No more road or criterium
> stuff. Time trial, maybe. If I rode a race on a steel road bike it
> would
> be for grins and exercise. Are the racers different in your neck of
> the
> woods?
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> Steel is old technology. Some people like old technology.
> >
> > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:15:34 -0500 Richard M Sachs
> > <richardsachs@juno.com> writes (IN PART)
> >
> > fwiw, my 30th ann frames, intro-ed
> > > at 2002 cirque has generated 8 orders, but one one of those is
> > > for a listee. how serious_is_this 'interest' in having a new
> > > version
> > > of an old bicycle frame? my question pertains to a 'new version
> > > of an old frame' not a lugged frame made with modern material.
> > > that is to say-pre oversized tubes, 'older' lugs, and the
> > > like...that
> > > kinda' frame. how many of you are out there?
> > > talk to me.
> > > e-RICHIE
> >
> > Richie, I am impressed that there have been 8 orders for the
> 30'Th.
> > Though it (30'Th anniversary) might be the definition of "cool" it
> would
> > be near the bottom of my wish list, unless I won the lottery or
> > something.
> > Nope, for that kind of money I want nothing less than your very
> best.
> > Not just workmanship wise, but the latest evolution of "the best
> racing
> > bike I can possibly make". But that's just me.
> > Richard Rose (Toledo, Ohio)
> > P.S. I hope the quote was accurate?