Interesting!! Just looked at the photo on e-bay,looks like a 1970's Peugeot sports frame,resprayed with Merckx decals maybe??can't remember any French built Merckx branded bikes,although Falcon made some cheap Merckx branded sports bikes in the U.K at this time.
Regards Steve Clarke St John St Cycles 91-93 St John Street Bridgwater Somerset TA6 5HX Tel: 01278 441544 (Int ++44-1278-441544) Fax: 01278 431107 (Int ++44-1278-431107) email: mailto:ecom@sjscycles.com http://www.sjscycles.com
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-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: 08 April 2003 20:05 To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 4, Issue 28
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Today's Topics:
1. French bike porn (Scott Goldsmith) 2. Re: Helyett Special Info 3. Campy SR 42 small chainring, TA 41 (Mark Petry) 4. match built Paramounts (goodrichbikes) 5. Re: 41T x 144 pattern chainrings... 6. Re: match built Paramounts 7. Books for sale (Peter Paine) 8. new record? (C. Andrews) 9. RE: new record? (Bingham, Wayne R.) 10. Re: new record? 11. re match built Paramounts (Steve Kurt) 12. Re: new record? (Brian Baylis) 13. Re: match built Paramounts (goodrichbikes) 14. Re: re [CR]match built Paramounts 15. French Merckx? (David Bilenkey) 16. Re: Attempt at posting ride report (Derek Willburn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:50:39 -0400 From: Scott Goldsmith <sg8357@getcoactive.com> To: internet-bob@bikelist.org Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]French bike porn Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030408093824.00a9a5e8@mail.getcoactive.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1
The estimable Bill Laines new ride...... Full dress Rando, tres chic. Does Gilles Berthoud count as a keeper of the flame ?
http://www.wallbike.com/
Needs a baguette in the front bag to look right.
-------- Scott Goldsmith Milford, Ohio USA. National Anvil Association Dedicated to preserving the lore of the American Anvil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:00:41 EDT From: ABikie@aol.com To: raleypc@netscape.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Helyett Special Info Message-ID: <123.205e2e57.2bc43e19@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2
In a message dated 4/8/03 7:07:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
raleypc@netscape.net writes:
> Subj: [CR]Helyett Special Info
> Date: 4/8/03 7:07:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> From: <A HREF="mailto:raleypc@netscape.net">raleypc@netscape.net</A>
> To: <A
HREF="mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org">classicrendezvous@bikelist.
org</A>
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> The new book, "The giants of Cycling", has a gorgeous color picture of
> Anquetil on a green "Helyett Special". The bike appears to have gold
lined
> Nervex Leggere (sp?) lugs, Stronglight 57 crankset, Mafac brakes, and
> possibly Simplex JUY 61 gears. Was Helyett a manufacturer? If not
does
> anyone know who made these frames?
>
> Paul Raley
> Top Finisher (and only) in toe clips at last weekends D20 USCF
> Chesapeake
> Road Race
> Rainy Leonardtown MD
>
I have a Helyett Special and now I know who is on the badge
Larry Black Mt Airy, Md.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:06:43 -0700 From: "Mark Petry" <mpetry@bainbridgeisland.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Campy SR 42 small chainring, TA 41 Message-ID: <000901c2fde0$7977a120$7f00000a@SKIDROW> In-Reply-To: <CATFOODVdGJ5OGQOuE300000fce@catfood.nt.phred.org> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3
I have 3 or 4 Campy 41t rings, and they are as low as you can go on the 144 spider. On the 41t ring, the chain links will drag on the top of the spider flanges (between the rings) and mar them slightly. There is no way to go any lower!
41t rings are hard to find and very cool! Other than a "little bit lower" ratio, I have it on good authority (ahem) that they were used frequently as synchronizing rings on tandems, where a prime numbered ring is purported to have better wear characteristics.
===================================================== Mark Petry 206.618.9642 Beautiful Bainbridge Island, WA mpetry@bainbridgeisland.net
===================================================== "Fighting a preemptive war is as irrational as committing suicide because one fears death."
--Otto von Bismarck =====================================================
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:08:03 -0400 From: Mark <rena.cutrufelli@comcast.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Campy SR 42 small chainring, TA 41, 144 bolt pattern smaller? How low can I go..... Limbo Limbo
I have 53/42 front cogs. I am told that the smallest tooth cog that will fit this 144mm bolt SR pattern is the 41 tooth TA. Probably correct. One more long shot -Without changing cranks, does anyone know of some odd smaller tooth that will fit my existing SR crank.Am I dreamin? How about custom?
Mark (How low can I go? I like to limbo) Cutrufelli
Laurel,MD
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:17:45 -0500 From: "goodrichbikes" <goodrichbikes@netzero.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]match built Paramounts Message-ID: <000301c2fde2$3ed86340$51393841@computer> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4
We built a total of 750 Paramounts at match. These Paramounts were = doomed from the beginning of the project. The geometry was not terribly = desirable (not enough BB drop) and the straight bladed fork was a = foolish mistake by a MTB driven marketing department. Despite all of = that, I think these Paramounts were as well made as any of the best = Paramounts from the past. =20
Curt Goodrich Minneapolis, MN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:38:49 EDT From: OROBOYZ@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: 41T x 144 pattern chainrings... Message-ID: <1d2.6fda4b3.2bc44709@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5
In a message dated 4/8/2003 11:14:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mpetry@bainbridgeisland.net writes:
<< I have 3 or 4 Campy 41t rings, and they are as low as you can go on the 144 spider. On the 41t ring, the chain links will drag on the top of the spider flanges (between the rings) and mar them slightly. There is no way to go any lower!
41t rings are hard to find and very cool! >>
I need to mention (again, I think we talked about this on the CR at least once before) that these 41 t x 144 pattern chain rings by TA, Campy or Avocet, sometimes, can "bump" the outer most face of the spider arm with
certain chains and spider combos. These cranks were designed for 42 T as the lowest gears and squeezing 41 T onto that format is a not optimum engineering after thought.
Some cranks, notably the Avocet (made by Ofmega) had an extra bit of that outer "shelf" milled away to give additional clearance. The problem can also be alleviated by using a chain with less tall side plates.
Dale Brown cycles de ORO, Inc. 1410 Mill Street Greensboro, North Carolina USA 27408 336-274-5959 Fax 336-274-6360 <A HREF="http://www.cyclesdeoro.com">cyclesdeORO.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.classicrendezvous.com/main.htm">Classic Rendezvous</A> ------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:43:41 EDT From: DavidS4410@aol.com To: goodrichbikes@netzero.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]match built Paramounts Message-ID: <79.e4fe793.2bc4482d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6
Curt, I don't understand what you mean "at match". Are you talking about the Tim Issac/Schwinn project? Dave Staub Orange, Ca
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:22:42 +0100 From: "Peter Paine" <Petebike7@btopenworld.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Books for sale Message-ID: <004f01c2fdeb$341db820$846b7ad5@010118420008> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7
Hello all I have a couple of books for sale all plus shipping 1/ 1957 Sturmey Archer master catalog A little tatty but all there and = very usefull .Ideal for the workshop $65
2/ 1952 Brown Brothers shop catalog . 364 pages with lots of great info = etc shop worn but still great $ 85
3/ Raleigh main dealers calaog with red croc skin cover for Rudge and = Triumph cycles . These are full of full color plates of the full range = of roadsters etc but covers Pathfinder and Ulster A little shopworn = $65
Regards Pete Paine Sunny but cold in Watford
---
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:12:09 -0700 From: "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]new record? Message-ID: <002001c2fdf1$fdcfe0c0$719afea9@chasds> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8
I assume this was outed already...but surely this has to be some kind of record..
http://ebay.com/
Just two bidders, both from Japan, ran the price up. Cool derailleur, yes, but not THAT cool, surely?????
Ah well. I am grateful it held no special interest for me. Of course, if one owned an early 50s Bianchi Paris Roubaix or something of the sort, I suppose one would have to have it, wouldn't one?
Charles "going through a too-many-bikes-right-now phase" Andrews SoCal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:03:50 -0400
From: "Bingham, Wayne R." <WBINGHAM@imf.org>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: RE: [CR]new record?
Message-ID:
<9A160F6F39EF9E45A5B0D3160285DFCC9E39B7@mlsswn05p.was.int.imf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Precedence: list
Message: 9
>>>I assume this was outed already...but surely this has to be
some kind of record..
http://ebay.com/
Just two bidders, both from Japan, ran the price up. Cool derailleur, yes, but not THAT cool, surely?????<<<<
Well, Matteo said that if he won the lottery, he'd be at the Cirque. Maybe now he can make it. If this isn't winning the lottery, I don't know what is!
Wayne Bingham Falls Church VA ------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:22:51 EDT From: OROBOYZ@aol.com To: WBINGHAM@imf.org, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]new record? Message-ID: <11d.20c9dd4f.2bc45f6b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10
In a message dated 4/8/2003 1:09:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, WBINGHAM@imf.org writes:
<< Well, Matteo said that if he won the lottery, he'd be at the Cirque. Maybe now he can make it. If this isn't winning the lottery, I don't know what is! >>
Excellent! We all get to meet Matteo at last!
Dale Brown cycles de ORO, Inc. 1410 Mill Street Greensboro, North Carolina USA 27408 336-274-5959 Fax 336-274-6360 <A HREF="http://www.cyclesdeoro.com">cyclesdeORO.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.classicrendezvous.com/main.htm">Classic Rendezvous</A> ------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 2003 17:26:35 -0000 From: "Steve Kurt" <kurtsj@mtco.com> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: re [CR]match built Paramounts Message-ID: <20030408172635.25087.qmail@mtco.com> In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11
From: "goodrichbikes" <goodrichbikes@netzero.net> "We built a total of 750 Paramounts at match. These Paramounts were = doomed from the beginning of the project. The geometry was not terribly = desirable (not enough BB drop) and the straight bladed fork was a = foolish mistake by a MTB driven marketing department. Despite all of = that, I think these Paramounts were as well made as any of the best = Paramounts from the past."
A quick question: why were straight bladed forks a mistake? Functionally, or aesthetically?
FWIW, when I saw a couple of these frames, I was impressed, as well as encouraged that a high-end lugged frame was being marketed again by a large manufacturer. oh well... ..but not all is lost. A buddy recently took posession of a nice, new lugged Merckx. Lots of chrome too!! Very sweet!
Steve Kurt Peoria, IL
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:34:32 -0700 From: Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]new record? Message-ID: <3E930828.52C6@adnc.com> References: <11d.20c9dd4f.2bc45f6b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: rocklube@adnc.com Message: 12
Dale,
Sorry if this is news to you, but if you hadn't missed Velo Rendezvous in Pasadena this past October; we already had the PLEASURE of his company. He's a super cool, younger Italian guy who loves more than anything to have fun, entertain people, and groove on all types of culture. He was pouring some bubbly sweet wine at the event that might as well have been nectar from heavan. I remember the name of the stuff but I'm not going to try to spell it. Teo knows what I'm talking about.
I have purchased two of the Montelaticis (one in the grief of having lost out on the little Ron Cooper) and I really think that was a super find of some really snazzy frames. Neener neener, I've got TWO! Scored some perfect Nisi rims I needed for my Colnago projects from his also, at an EXTREMELY good price.
Hopefully Matteo can make it to Greensboro, it would be the ultimate addition to the already stellar crowd that is due to assemble. So as one who HAS met Matteo, you deffinite DO want to meet him yourself if you get the chance. Come on over Matteo (now that you're RICH) and join the party; there will be plenty of fun Brits to hang with as well. It doesn't get any better than this.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
Teo, find me a tiny Masi special track bike from the 50's, CHEAP, OK
good buddy?
>
> In a message dated 4/8/2003 1:09:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> WBINGHAM@imf.org writes:
>
> <<
> Well, Matteo said that if he won the lottery, he'd be at the Cirque.
> Maybe now he can make it. If this isn't winning the lottery, I don't
> know what is! >>
>
> Excellent! We all get to meet Matteo at last!
>
> Dale Brown
> cycles de ORO, Inc.
> 1410 Mill Street
> Greensboro, North Carolina
> USA 27408
> 336-274-5959
> Fax 336-274-6360
> <A HREF="http://www.cyclesdeoro.com">cyclesdeORO.com</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.classicrendezvous.com/main.htm">Classic
> Rendezvous</A> _______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:34:17 -0500 From: "goodrichbikes" <goodrichbikes@netzero.net> To: <DavidS4410@aol.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]match built Paramounts Message-ID: <000001c2fdf9$7545fc00$6b3b1fcc@computer> References: <79.e4fe793.2bc4482d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13
match was the name of Tim Isaac's company. That is where the latest = last lugged Schwinn Paramounts were made.
Curt Goodrich Minneapolis, MN ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DavidS4410@aol.com=20 To: goodrichbikes@netzero.net ; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [CR]match built Paramounts
Curt, I don't understand what you mean "at match". Are you talking about = the Tim Issac/Schwinn project? Dave Staub Orange, Ca=20
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:12:43 EDT From: OROBOYZ@aol.com To: kurtsj@mtco.com, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: re [CR]match built Paramounts Message-ID: <105.2c2733c4.2bc46b1b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14
In a message dated 4/8/2003 1:33:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kurtsj@mtco.com writes:
<< A quick question: why were straight bladed forks a mistake? Functionally, or aesthetically?
FWIW, when I saw a couple of these frames, I was impressed, as well as encouraged that a high-end lugged frame was being marketed again by a large manufacturer. >>
Opinions are like ___ but at that time, I was interested in seeing the design that Match was contracted to build for Schwinn. I also was excited to see a big company try a lugged steel top of the line product. Probably the last we will ever see!
The design of the lugs was a backwards glance to Waterford Paramounts and earlier, married to Tim Isaac's own design proclivities.
The Nervex and Waterford influence exists in the little points on the sides of the lugs.....slightly "fancy".
Isaac's influence is obvious in his low-behind-the-lug "fastback" fastening method as he used at Trek and in his own custom frames from many years before. In addition we can see Tim's expertise in high production techniques in the production-aiding "plug-in" lugs.
In my opinion, the straight forks are completely cosmetic.
I was disappointed that the cast lugs were minimally cleaned up in the building process.. On many frames, seams and signs of the casting process were readily visible. As with older Nervex lugged bikes, there was not any if any filing or shaping. This again, is typical of frames "built to a price."
But, this Match built frame is now brief chapter in the tortuous history of this famous lineage...
Dale Brown cycles de ORO, Inc. 1410 Mill Street Greensboro, North Carolina USA 27408 336-274-5959 Fax 336-274-6360 <A HREF="http://www.cyclesdeoro.com">cyclesdeORO.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.classicrendezvous.com/main.htm">Classic Rendezvous</A> ------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:15:15 -0400 From: "David Bilenkey" <dbilenkey@sympatico.ca> To: "Classicrendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]French Merckx? Message-ID: <HBECIOPCNPKEJLCJBKNKOEDNFNAA.dbilenkey@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: dbilenkey@sympatico.ca Message: 15
http://cgi.ebay.ca/
OK, anybody know if this is actually a Merckx or a French frame in Merckx decals? I'm inclined to believe the latter, as this is the same seller that sold me a child sized ALE cage and bottle saying it was the 'vintage way' of drinking. :-P
"This frame was a special serie for the french importer." says the seller. Ya right.
Anyone have the inside scoop?
David Bilenkey Industrial Designer Ottawa, Ontario, Canada dbilenkey@sympatico.ca
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:24:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derek Willburn <morganx9@yahoo.com>
To: VintageBikes <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR]Attempt at posting ride report
Message-ID: <20030408182408.92132.qmail@web40903.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <3E9282B8.13A8@adnc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Message: 16
...and the guy on the small Colnago.
Just for the record -I was the guy on the small Colnago. Thank you John and Brian for the draft.
Derek Willburn Long Beach CA
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_______________________________________________
End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 4, Issue 28 ************************************************