[CR]Shimano and Campagnolo

(Example: Framebuilders:Norman Taylor)

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:42:15 -0700
From: "Dennis Young" <mail@woodworkingboy.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <gillies@cs.ubc.ca>
In-Reply-To: <CATFOODLjVUAsz6JAYk00001e13@catfood.nt.phred.org>
Subject: [CR]Shimano and Campagnolo

To what degree Campagnolo has been compelled to orient down a road that dictates a production of cheaper and more mass accessible components, must fall within the perspective of making changes to confront a differing market place, i.e. survival. Attribute this to Shimano setting the pace if you will, but I don't think that anyone held a gun to the backs of the powers that be in Vicenza, and said that they should begin producing products that lack integrity, as has been the case with some of their top of the line componentry as well, during various off topic periods that most of us have relatively little interest in discussing. Given the illustrious history and experience of the European componentry, could it only have been without a sense of pride that they chose to follow the big Nippon faction into a unjustifiable swamp of poor quality workmanship? I trust that list members can better inform, but during earlier times when campy made forays into cheaper componentry, didn't they do so in large part without sacraficing their standards of a product intended to provide a longevity of service? Businesses must change to meet the times, but when some of the very foundations that gave rise to the inspirations and successes in the past have been discarded, then the importance of the name may loose creedence. I don't see how Shimano can be held accountable for this as applied to Campagnolo.

With regard to Japanese products not meeting your undefined aesthetic standards, one should understand that traditional Japanese concepts of design are considerably different from those in the occident. Forgive the inadequate translation, but precepts such as 'nothingness' and 'restraint', are still cultural identities that manifest in today's society and industry. How to perceive this, in the west may not be adequately understood within a culture where individuality and unique creativity is much emphasized, in contrast to the norm here. Personal preferences not withstanding, I suggest that it is a considerably complex issue, not least of which entails a study of culture and history to arrive at knowledgable conclusions on the matter.

Basicly, I can't agree with such a broad sweeping statement concerning Japanese componentry. Some of the 70s and early 80s items that I am familiar with may not have quite the sweep of line or soft curves of the European counterparts, but still they are hardly without some merits of appearance to my eye. For a time I was riding a bike with a early Shimano 600 group, and the down tube shifters were beautifully engraved. As applied to frames, there certainly have been many beautiful ones made here. I know that a number of list members consider them as highly valued possessions alongside their European and American made bikes. Consider Zunow, 3Rensho, Toei, Fuji, others, something here to complain about?

Dennis Young Today riding on a carpet of rain and fallen cherry blossoms in Hotaka, Japan


>
> here is why i think that japanese makers and japanese parts get no respect.
>
> japanese parts and frames have always been rather bland stylistically.
> when i was a kid in the 1970's i was always looking for parts that
> were "amost as good" as the overly expensive european parts. i
> appreciated the suntour and SR stuff and the japanese efforts at
> innovation. Suntour and SR actually tried to make works of art in
> their componentry. unfortunately, they were wiped out by evil
> shimano.
>
> today, i have an ultegra bicycle but if you ask me do i appreciate
> what shimano has done for the industry, i think it is truly a mixed
> bag. shimano has cheapened the bicycle parts industry, turning bicycle
> components into throw-away items. shimano bicycle parts are bland
> looking and i do not like the look. shimano has gone too far in
> making parts inexpensively and they have forced others to follow them
> down that dirty road. i feel that campagnolo has been forced down
> this road by shimano, but i may be mistaken about their motivations.
>
> the european frame makers and component companies, especially
> campagnolo but also stronglight and cinelli, evoke a "passion" for
> bicycle design and styling. the parts and frames are a work of art.
> i'd like to see pictures of just one japanese frame or component set
> that comes close to being a work of art.
>
> in 2000 i bought a 1998 trek 2300 with ultegra, and got it converted
> to a triple. it's a frigging 27-speed. i am reminded of a Bicycling!
> 1977 (i think) cartoon strip about a guy bragging about his 27-speed.
> the sprocket on the rear wheel takes up 25% of the picture (the bike's
> rear end is closest to the viewpoint). we all laughed about this in
> 1977. now in 2003 you can buy a 30-speed. why is this not thought to
> be insanely funny / stupid in 2003 ?? On my trek 2300, i normally
> shift 2 gears at a time because its such a pain in the *ss to change
> by only one gear at a time. I bought the trek because it looks good
> at 5 feet. there are almost no modern aluminum bicycles that offer
> anything to look at from 5 inches away. i still love the 1970's
> bicycles more than the neon explosions that are passed off as bicycles
> today ...
>
> - don gillies
> san diego, ca