Dale,
I think I have a simular view of Japanese frames as you do. I haven't actually given the issue much consideration largely on account of the fact that I see very little of it myself. Japanese frames are generally very clean and refined in execution. The styling is deffinitely Euro; just as the work of many American framebuilders is Euro-inspired. I'm obviously one of them. Eurostyling is no surprize to me considering that the original materials we all used are Euro made. The Japanese style of interpting Euro design and the American version are distinctly different. Both are more refined that the originals in Europe; but one must consider that the Euro origins of these frames go back to early post war and beyond when the world and values and whatnot were different from later times. Of course all bets are off when making this comparison when investment cast lugs came into being. One can only compare apples with apples; therefore only frames made from pressed lugs and hand filed (or not!) can be compared in level of craftsmanship. Or at least compare all bikes from all origins with investment lugs with one another. The fact is though, the old lugs can be made to look fantastic in a way that no investment lugs can. One can easily do a real sanitary job inside the BB shell out of even the crappyest stamped BB shell. I use only the best BB shells I can get my hands on for my projects; often times that will include an investment BB shell. Regardless, most of the more respected Euro masters range from sloppy but acceptable to not bad for that period. They set the standards then, not us. The fact still remains for me at least, I like all of it. Top level craftsmanship is somewhat relative to certain periods of time. I still find lots of charm and mucho Mojo in the Euro classics, regardless of the craftsmanship as long as it works, is interesting in some way, or a beautiful design.
Never actually had a Japanese frame blow my dress up. I suppose that's a good thing!
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
Got PANTS in my ANTS, anxious to go to GREENSBORO!
>
> I think the premise is fallacious..
>
> I believe top-of-the-game Japanese bikes/frames get great respect by those
> with a knowledge of the craft, but Japanese work is viewed differently
> because.... the work is different! I could expound on this for hours (at the
> Cirque in 9 days!!) but:
>
> - The origination of style is generally European. The Japanese do marvelous
> interpretation of those styles but the source is undeniable.
>
> - The Japanese execution is often close to perfect, the "sign of the hand" is
> often polished and burnished away...Euro master's did not go this far,
> leaving individualistic traces of the work... This is interesting to me as I
> think in native Japanese forms, such as Raku pottery and calligraphy, the
> "sign of the hand" is retained and appreciated.
>
> - Finally, the top Japanese bike frames have had little exposure to many of
> us.. Except for 3Rensho and Zunow, we have had virtually none of the "good
> stuff" imported into the USA. I have a Japanese magazine I got from Mike
> Melton in the late 1970s and I have studied every page and photo over and
> over and I see some really neat builders and products that never were seen by
> USA bike folks...
>
> My 2 centz,
> Dale
>
> Dale Brown
> cycles de ORO, Inc.
> 1410 Mill Street
> Greensboro, North Carolina
> USA 27408
> 336-274-5959
> Fax 336-274-6360
> <A HREF="http://www.cyclesdeoro.com">cyclesdeORO.com</A>
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