[CR]RE: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 1, Issue 2047

> Are there any caveats for drilling a track fork crown for a front
> brake....? I have a dedicated track frameset that I want to use for fixed
> gear training on the road. It's a Zeus crown with a pretty abbreviated
> bridge---I'm thinking of just swapping out the fork for a drilled road fork.
> Thanx for any suggestions!
>
> Nor in Iowa
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________

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Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:45:51 EST From: RaleighPro531@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Drilling fork crown for brake attachment Message-ID: <55.361eaaa0.2b54554f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9

In a message dated 1/13/2003 12:17:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, norbikes@hotmail.com writes:

> Are there any caveats for drilling a track fork crown for a front
> brake....? I have a dedicated track frameset that I want to use for fixed
> gear training on the road. It's a Zeus crown with a pretty abbreviated
> bridge---I'm thinking of just swapping out the fork for a drilled road
> fork.
> Thanx for any suggestions!
>

Swap the fork! You'll have: 1) A properly drilled fork with clearance for the brake. 2) The original unmolested fork, should that become important. 3) If you get a fork with a bit longer steeerer you can maybe get a better position for road riding.

Pete Geurds Douglassville, PA

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Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:45:05 -0500 From: "Bender-Zanoni, Joseph" <JBender-Zanoni@fishneave.com> To: "'classicrendezvous@bikelist.org'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Maybe restored can be worth original in special cases Message-ID: <C6A2BD336CDA184094AB3C07FB5A88E66671DB@NYMAILCL> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10

Once I get the old parts put back on I would say this restored Paramount is worth about the same as a weathered original. Not a mint original but one with healthy patina (usually means crazed paint on a Paramount from the '60s).

http://ebay.com/<blah
>

I've been both overworked and being away from home so long is miserable so some belated Christmas presents have been in order.

How about these:

http://ebay.com/<blah 0>

Wow, a Hi-E rarity of rarities. "36" aluminium spokes on the drive side (18 double sided spokes, 7 cross. That's a 150 gram, 54 hole rear rim! Larry, how many of these do you have salted away? IF I remember, Harlan built the alloy spoke jobs and you had to buy the whole wheel, not the parts. Very few of the 150 gram rims have survived, let alone a set like this. I'd like to find a front skewar if anyone has one. This set will come to the Cirque, but I'm sure not the person to ride these wheels.

The wheels come from Neal of itsamall.com. I purchased a few other nice items and he was extremely easy to deal with in person. About as good as it gets in fact. This is contrary to all the De Rosa back and forth. Just communicate by email or if you need a phone number, email me. He has unusual ideas about Ebaying, doesn't like snipers, close auctions when he thinks he gets a fair price etc. He also wants assurance that direct purchases are not for further Ebay resale. Those are his ideas and that's that. There is a lot of nice stuff in the shop, but I was in a rush.

I looked at the De Rosa. The paint is very thick which does not help. I think it was a one off bike with repairs and additions. The front end looked perhaps altered or repaired, with a little bulge near the head lug. The reinforcing tubes a bit sloppy, maybe added on. My two cents.

Joe Bender-Zanoni 11 more days in Las Vegas ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:50:15 EST From: DavidS4410@aol.com To: recycle@wmni.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Al Crosby info? six day racer.... Message-ID: <197.13d94a82.2b545657@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11

You are looking for info about Al Crossley, not Crosby. Do you have to have an original 1938 Paramount Catalog? Chuck Schmidt at http://www.velo-retro.com has reprints for sale. I have not seen much info about Crossley other than that he was from Chicago and rode for Schwinn in 6 Day races. Dave Staub Orange, Ca

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Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:53:48 EST From: CYCLESTORE@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: George Mount-Longish Message-ID: <1c5.36813c8.2b54572c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12

Hi Gang,

In response to the fellow who stated something about no American was ever inspired to take up racing because of George Mount or words similar.

Having grown up racing in his era I must say while it may not appreciate the value of a bike much he had a far greater impact on American cycling than many would believe because he showed and demonstrated what was possible. Certainly a young Lemond was inspired as well as others.

One local fellow who while somewhat obscure now did follow George's inspiration a long way. There was a one 15 year old highschool American football player who watched that 1976 Olympic ride with awe. This Salisbury, NC native was heavily muscled and large for his age and after viewing one rainy afternoon in Montreal decided to become a professional cyclist.

With no local bike shop or coach at hand he took his ordinary 10 speed out and started riding 70 + mile training rides each and every day in high gear. He was no stranger to hard work. All winter he trained like convict for the tunnel that would be finished soon. The following summer he entered four Junior races and crashed in the first three winning the forth. This was 1977 and that fall a thin blond haired fellow named Greg Lemond went to Argentina to win gold in the Junior world championships.

Upon returning home a buoyant Lemond and his US teammate joined the coach Eddie B. in Atlantic City for a late season big purse (10,000+ K in the Junior event as I recall) crit on the boardwalk. The Lemond led US team was in top form from the championships a few days earlier and expecting easy money on the flat wind swept boardwalk.

The young man from North Carolina seemed almost twice the size of our victorious national team members and as cruel children often do, made fun of his unshaved legs. Being a new comer to the cliquish world of cycling and not accustomed to being put down before an event even started he boiled with anger.

The race was about 30 miles round on 1 mile laps as I recall. A talented British lad made a quick hop over and started the race with an attack from the gun. The cagey US team boys noting the sapping winds blowing off of the adjacent sea choose to bide their time and let things settle down in the beginning. Not so our big new fellow. Without much in the way of close club mates to guide his tactics he was off after the British Lad in short order joining him in a few laps. They went on to lap the field and finish one-two (our hero was 2nd) to the utter astonishment of the national team coach.

He was immediately invited to Colorado Springs where he declared that anyone able to ride his devil ergomenter till exhaustion for 18 minutes would be on the national team (Senior that is). Greg Lemond took the challenge and rode 16.5 minutes. The best of most senior men at the time (though he was a Junior). The sixteen year old man with now freshly shaved legs rode 18 minutes and change on his first attempt and was tagged for future improvement.

After several medals (victories?) in the nationals and other victories he went to Europe and turned professional. In 1983 Lemond picked him as a team mate in his own professional world championship win in Switzerland.

This man you probably never heard of but accomplished quite a lot in a short time was named John Patterson and certainly visited the Cirques home shop of Cycles De Ore and may have been a team memeber there (Dale?). George Mount inspired him a lot and he assisted Greg to his first worlds pro title.

Gilbert "Cowbells to you"Anderson Raleigh, NC USA ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:22:41 -0500 From: "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com> To: RaleighPro531@aol.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Drilling fork crown for brake attachment Message-ID: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.104248224321156@veloworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Reply-To: stevens@veloworks.com Message: 13

At Monday, 13 January 2003, RaleighPro531@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 1/13/2003 12:17:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>norbikes@hotmail.com writes:
>
>> Are there any caveats for drilling a track fork crown for a front
>> brake....? I have a dedicated track frameset that I want to use for fixed
>> gear training on the road. It's a Zeus crown with a pretty abbreviated
>> bridge---I'm thinking of just swapping out the fork for a drilled road
>> fork.
>> Thanx for any suggestions!
>>
>
>Swap the fork!
>You'll have:
>1) A properly drilled fork with clearance for the brake.
>2) The original unmolested fork, should that become important.
>3) If you get a fork with a bit longer steeerer you can maybe get a better
>position for road riding.

You'll also have a fork with longer legs and more offset, which will result in raising the front of the bike, slackening the headtube angle, and resulting in a variance in trail which can have a negative impact on the handling of the bike.

--

Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas servitus est nescio robur est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

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Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:27:24 EST From: BobHoveyGa@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Ebay outing - Maxicar Message-ID: <1ab.f45fdd0.2b545f0c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14

Here's a Maxicar hubset w/ 9 hr left... low price (hasn't met reserve yet). Don't know much about Maxicar, whether this one's a desirable model... but I hear the name enough on CR that I thought it's be worth posting.
>>http://ebay.com/<blah> <<

No relation to seller, etc.

Bob Hovey Columbus, GA ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:30:01 -0700 From: John Price <jprice@2-10.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]Re: Ebay outing - Maxicar Message-ID: <307BB21BAB87A047AC0813C0FA3DDD9203EF415B@prexchange.hbw.local> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15

The fact that they don't have the keyhole spoke holes on the drive side would lead me to believe these are not as desirable as some.

John Price Denver CO

-----Original Message----- From: BobHoveyGa@aol.com [mailto:BobHoveyGa@aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 11:27 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Ebay outing - Maxicar

Here's a Maxicar hubset w/ 9 hr left... low price (hasn't met reserve yet).

Don't know much about Maxicar, whether this one's a desirable model... but I

hear the name enough on CR that I thought it's be worth posting.
>>http://ebay.com/<blah> <<

No relation to seller, etc.

Bob Hovey Columbus, GA _______________________________________________

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Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 7:44:06 +1300 From: <wayne.collect@xtra.co.nz> To: "Mark Petry" <mpetry@bainbridgeisland.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]RE: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 1, Issue 2044 Message-ID: <20030113184406.NAFJ2413.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16

Hi all, I could not have said it better, I have not been on this list long, but I am thinking it might just be easier to put the item on eBay, esp there is a picture to go with it, no disrespect to Dale's List, but yes some things I have had up on the list have had very good response, and others not so well, just my 5 cents worth...........wayne davidson sweating in Auckland New Zealand.

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Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:48:13 -0800 From: Brandon Ives <monkeylad@mac.com> To: BobHoveyGa@aol.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Ebay outing - Maxicar Message-ID: <424622.1042483693393.JavaMail.monkeylad@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17

I saw these last week and almost bid on them except I'm not about to do a "cash only" transaction to Singapore. I'm fairly sure most other folks feel the same and this would be the reason for such a low price. I'd love to have these hubs for my touring bike project. enjoy, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives SB, CA

On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 10:27AM, <BobHoveyGa@aol.com> wrote:
>Here's a Maxicar hubset w/ 9 hr left... low price (hasn't met reserve yet).
>Don't know much about Maxicar, whether this one's a desirable model... but I
>hear the name enough on CR that I thought it's be worth posting.
>
>>>http://ebay.com/<blah> 7<<
>
>No relation to seller, etc.
>
>Bob Hovey
>Columbus, GA
>_______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:51:29 -0500 From: LouDeeter@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Lou Deeter Autograph auction Message-ID: <3AB6FB1C.0891F00D.0269AA25@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 18

In a message dated 1/12/2003 8:13:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jon3084 writes:
> I'm certain Lou would also buy a beer for the high bidder

Seeing as how the bidding is already at $56, I'll do more than buy a beer! But, given the bootlegging laws in the South, suffice it to say I will give the high bidder (if he/she comes to Cirque) a green bottle with purple liquid and the name of a famous Italian framebuilder that gets discussed a lot on this list. If the bid gets high enough, perhaps Jonathan Greene and the buyer will also become famous by getting their names included in Dale's "highest prices list" as the seller/buyer of the highest priced empty Campagnolo Box. Bid, bid, bid!! Lou Deeter, Orlando FL ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Schrader <bcschrader@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: BB Length Message-ID: <20030113185700.94422.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <CATFOODko8C7wyfwjHN000003f6@catfood.nt.phred.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 19

I run into this problem quite often while working on bicycles that have had either the crank or the bottom bracket spindle replaced in the past. I have several copies of Sutherland's Manual dating back to the early 70's and the most current one as well. But I find it's easier to take a few measurements and determine on my own what length and offset BB would be correct.

By "sighting" from behind the rear cluster up through the chainwheels, I can move my head left or right so that I'm viewing a straight line that the chainwheel will take and see which rear gear it lines up with. Ideally, in a triple crank/7sp cluster, the chain wheel that I sight on is the center one and the line it should take is through the center gear on the cluster (three on either side of the center one). If your eye sight is not that good, then a piece of string tied to a tooth on the front side of the chainwheel, running along side the chainwheel and back to the cluster will show where the chain line goes.

The problem is almost always that the spindle is too long. I take a measurement of the distance between the chain stays and the crank arm (at the pedal, both left and right side) and the distance between the inner chainwheel to the chain stay to see how far the crank will go in before anything starts hitting.

I can then do a simple subtraction to see what length spindle would be optimum and then get out the parts book and see what's available in that length or closest to that length.

I just changed a 121mm spindle with a 107mm this last week using this method and everything came out perfect and the shifting is nice a smooth and the chain is quiet on the extreme angles and the derailleur adjustments are well within their limits now.

One other thing to consider is the offset (if any) that's necessary on the chainwheel side to accomodate one, two or three chainwheels.

Now that I've written this simple explanation, it seems complicated to me.... but I still find it easier to determine (and more accurate sometimes) than spending much time in Southerland's manual trying to determine the correct length especially if I'm working with newer than Nuovo Record or Super Record stuff. I'm not that familiar with the different models of Campy that have emerged since then and those are the one's with the low "q" factor that require the shorter spindles. If it's Japanese or other European makes, then my methods work well also.

Good luck, Bruce Schrader San Francisco

____________________________________________________ From: GPVB1@cs.com Subject: Re: [CR]BB Length

One word Benjamin: Sutherland's Manual!

(OK, that's two actually...).

Greg "bookish" Parker Ann Arbor, MI USA ___________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:23:25 +0200 From: Phil Grizic <pgrizic@haggie.co.za> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]BB Length

I hope that someone on the list can help me. I have quite a few bikes mostly with Campy equipment - Nuovo Record, Super Record, Grand Sport, Croce d'Aune, and various generations of Record. I seem to sometimes have a problem with the BB length and the chain line. Some of the bikes run very smoothly but some seem to object in the lower and the higher gears. As these bikes have been built up over the years with parts that I have managed to acquire - I think that maybe some of the BB's are not really the rights ones for the Cranks, either too long or too short. Does anyone have a chart of the recommended BB lengths matching with the various Campy Cranks? Or is there something else that I am doing wrong. Any suggestions will be welcome Thanks Phil Grizic Durban - South Africa

===== "Not all those that wander are lost." -J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 1, Issue 2047 **************************************************