Re: [CR]Cinelli vs. Paramount

(Example: Framebuilders:Chris Pauley)

From: <NortonMarg@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:11:43 EST
Subject: Re: [CR]Cinelli vs. Paramount
To: dbcooper@rcn.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org


In a message dated 11/6/03 1:20:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, dbcooper@rcn.com writes:
> own a 1972 Paramount P-13 and a 1967 Cinelli Speciale Corsa. Both are
> chrome frames with almost identical geometry and dimensions. Yet they ride
> very differently. The Schwinn is stiffer and harsher (although still quite
> nice), while the Cinelli seems to glide over bumps and road irregularities
> with aplomb.
>
> I had a conversation about this with Don Mainland who built Paramount frames
> in Wisconsin in the seventies under contract for Schwinn and he told me that
> matching the ride of the Cinelli's was their goal, but they never quite
> achieved it. Something in the Cinelli fork design or knowing how much
> stiffness is required in the brazing of the lugs...
>
> I also had a conversation about this topic at the Cirque last spring with
> the late Dave Staub, who also remembered the ride quality of the Cinelli
> being a goal for the Paramount designers.
>

It is my understanding that Schwinn used a fairly heavy gauge tubeset for all the Paramounts except for some notable exceptions. Ed Litton had a chance to by a track bike that was specially made, for Dave Brink to ride in the Olympics, out of lighter tubing than standard. In his opinion it rode far better than most Schwinn track bikes. I had one Schwinn track bike that I bought new from Dennis Stone about 1973. It was dead feeling and I didn't care for it. This from a guy who LIKES SP tubing a lot! In terms of details, I also didn't like the way the stay ends were finished at the drop outs. Purely aesthetic, but not at all to my taste. Something else I have heard from someone who has repaired a number of 1960s-1970s paramounts, is that the top tube/seat tube joint is barely mitered, if at all. This does not apply to the Waterford bikes as far as I know. Schwinn certainly did not copy Cinelli from an aesthetic standpoint. Schwinn's had the same understated beauty from the late 30s. They has their own aesthetic and the evolution of it. Cinelli evolved his sense of style and design from what was going on in Italy in the late 40s. It was an evolution and innovation based on Italian racing conditions. Stevan Thomas "inspired by the Italians" Alameda, CA