Re: [CR]Re: Vintage and Classic on eBay

(Example: Framebuilders:Norman Taylor)

From: "Paul Williams" <castell5@sympatico.ca>
To: <StuartMX4@aol.com>
References: <173.21cc446b.2ce26b1f@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Vintage and Classic on eBay
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:57:24 -0500
cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>

Ah, but I just picked a couple of definitions from the web. I purposefully did not define the terms myself and I certainly do not maintain that they are necessarily correct - of course, there is the realization that different people and different groups will define them as they see fit. I also wasn't meaning to imply that the time-frame implicit in the world of car collecting would be appropriate in bicycle collecting. I agree that our hobby should be inclusive and not get hung up on terminology. I was just curious about the usage in defining bicycle sales and what they mean - I often peruse the UK E-Bay site and I was noting how rarely the term "vintage" is used in British sales ;^)

Paul Williams, Ottawa, ON, Canada

P.S. As a student in Sheffield, my father once had a 1936 Riley Kestrel Sprite and my grandfather had a two 2.5 litre Lagonda - I don't think either saw those cars as anything other than transportation - indeed my grandfather traded his in for a Morris Minor - because my grandmother thought it too ostentatious :^)


----- Original Message -----
From: StuartMX4@aol.com
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: [CR]Re: Vintage and Classic on eBay



> Paul Williams is not quite correct in his definitions; to the Vintage
> Sports Car Club, a Post Vintage Thoroughbred is not any car made in the
> thirties. It is an example of one of the makes and models listed as PVT by the
> club. The list controversially lengthened a couple of decades ago to include such
> cars as the Wolseley Hornet which is perhaps not quite the sort of car the
> original VSCC members had in mind. (Rather like letting a Holdsworth built
> Freddie Grubb or Claud Butler in as the equal of the real thing.) Shouldn't the old
> bicycle movement be inclusive rather than exclusive? (I've just been
> gratuitously rude about someone else's bikes, damn it! Sorry late Grubbs and Clauds.)
> People often miss the point of the VSCC which is that it is a club for
> people who use their cars. Not all of us do, of course, but a big enough
> percentage to keep the cars alive in racing, hillclimbs, sprints and trials.
> Surely the only reasons for organising the enjoyment of old bicycles in a formal
> way either as a club or on the web is to act as a clearing house for
> information, to encourage the regular use of bicycles which would otherwise be neglected
> because of age and to enjoy the company of like minded people. That is how the
> VSCC started. If you start throwing around categories analogous to the
> VSCC's, all the Rudges and Humbers and Raleigh Lentons will be infra dig. Only the
> exotica would be eligible. I may not be able to realistically aspire to a
> Bugatti car or bicycle (not sure I'd want the bike, actually) but I know what I
> like within my price range and I can and do drive and ride what is old and
> enjoyable... some machines older than me and others younger. If you see the terms
> veteran, vintage, thorougbred or classic used on eBay, take warning! The seller
> will be suspect. He will probably also offer to tarmac your drive, prune your
> trees and replace missing roof tiles if you let him near your house. If you
> sell on eBay, tell it like it is, cut out meaningless adjectives and let a good
> photo speak for itself.
> Stuart Tallack in West Sussex