These are very good questions. I just had a discussion with another CR member about this subject. His belief is that items from the 80s can be vintage and even replica items from the 80s! As far as I am concerned there is nothing from the 80s that is "vintage" except maybe for a fine wine etc. I am involved with vintage aircraft and this term is only applied to aircraft that were built before 1940. Post 1940 they are termed "Classic". So I am interested to hear exactly what "vintage" means in the bicycle world. I also think that "salesmanship" on ebay goes way too far some times.
Michael Short, Austin Texas.
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:19:06 -0500 "Paul Williams"
<castell5@sympatico.ca> writes:
> Hi folks,
>
> I have recently been struck by the constant over use or perhaps
> improper use of the terms "vintage" and "classic" on E-Bay and in
> other sales. I remember a book on "veteran," "vintage," and
> "classic" cars my father had when I was a kid. This had a discussion
> of these definitions and a clear idea of what they meant. Vintage
> originally, of course, coming from the world of the wine
> connoisseur.
>
> I don't want to enter into another protracted discussion here about
> the concepts of value and "keepers of the flame" etc., however, I
> was just struck by the fact that application of these terms is often
> being used to justify charging higher prices, assigning a greater
> sense of value to something, and is perhaps misleading. Am I wrong?
> Without getting too anal about this, is there a clear idea within
> bicycle collecting what is considered "vintage" and what is
> considered "classic"? (I know that this is often in the eye of the
> beholder so to speak!)
>
> Paul Williams,
> Ottawa "where it is beginning to snow this morning" ON, Canada
>
>
> P.S. In a search for a clear idea of how car collectors are
> thinking, I found two examples (of course this is often country
> dependant):
>
> http://www.motorsm.com/
>
> "What makes a car a "classic"? This is a difficult question that no
> two car enthusiast will agree on. Therefore we apologize at the
> outset for omissions of cars that you consider to be a "classic".
> What follows is a subjective selection based on combination of :
> a.. design innovation
> b.. enduring appeal
> c.. performance
> d.. aesthetics
> e.. age (at least 20 years old).
> f.. Timeframe:
> a.. 1900-1908 Veteran Cars
> b.. 1909-1930 Vintage Cars
> c.. 1931- Classic Car"
> http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/
>
> "Probably the most discussed question raised by people with a new
> found interest in older cars, is 'What is a Classic Car?'. Finding
> an answer to this question ranks with establishing the meaning of
> life (well almost), as there can be no other debate likely to raise
> the hackles of one group of enthusiasts or another. ... Older cars
> can be grouped more or less by the year they were made, such as with
> vintage and veteran cars for instance, vintage cars (as defined by
> the Vintage Sports Car Club I think) are anything built pre-1930. A
> car built between 1930 and WW2 is generally classed as being a Post
> Vintage Thoroughbred, quite a grand moniker for many cars that fall
> into this group, which at the time were less than grand. After this
> time things get significantly less clear, with the term 'Classic
> Car' being applied by various quarters to any car from the 1940s
> right through in some cases to the 1980s even. ... At the end of
> the day, the term 'classic car' is now accepted as applying to any
> car over say 15 years of age that has some fan base to draw upon,
> with one or two exceptions for truly interesting more recent
> automobiles. "
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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