How about a new list named : "Bikes Pooh-Poohed by ClassicRendezvous" Maybe on such a list, rides like my Serotta Colorado, Maza Max or Slim Chance could bask in praise from admirers other than myself. Certainly newbies on their alumino-carbons have no idea how fine steel bikes can be...so there's not much to chat with them about... except component weight & $300 bike shoes. But I guess if a little teeny bit of tube shaping signals the end of the Classic Era...1983 is a reasonably good bookend. I'd better keep my fine-riding '83 BJ Special Tourist in this case. Jim Hultman Fogbound in Santa Barbara with a veritable museum of red-hot. well-designed, great riding, off-topic late eighties bikes hanging in the garage, sadly snubbed by both old & new guard (sniff).