Is it a given the Ernesto was using a subcontract system in the late 60's and early 70s? Or is this just an assumption? I have what is believed to be a '72 or '73 Molteni orange Colnago and these early frames have excellent workmanship - the lugs are filed thin, the seatstay caps are delicate and precise. From '76 on, I know the workmanship suffered a great deal on Colnagos, indicating that there were "too many cooks in the kitchen", so to speak. But the quality of workmanship on the early Colnagos seems to be very consistent and very good, which may tend to run counter to assumption of subcontracting during that era. Am I being totally unrealistic to wonder if framebuilding was kept within Ernesto's gaze, under one roof? Which also begs the question: how long, if ever, did Ernesto actually hang on to the torch once he decided to start his company?
Dave Patrick Chelsea, Michigan
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Brian Baylis Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:45 AM To: C. Andrews Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]re: colnago on ebay
Charles,
No question about it. My '70 has the slimmer style. The bottom of the stem is actually concave (the way I like to make them). Clearly there were variations. Not hard to believe considering the subcontractor system in use at the time.
This is great. We've got everyone checking out their Colnagos. In the process we are learning more about these bikes. One thing is clear, there are variations within any given year. I can hardley wait until we get together for the Joe Bell Colnago ride here later this year. It will allow us to compare in the flesh.
Brian Baylis
>
> We differ here. My original-finish 1969/70 Super--which you
> have seen--has the fluffy flower, as do my two '72-ish
> Supers. In my experience the bigger, fluffier flower was
> standard on the dt lug on all Supers until 1976 or so.
> Sometime in there the cutout-shape changed to the smaller
> flower, with a slightly different profile. Matt Gorsky's
> 1977 green Super has this smaller flower with the long-point
> lugs.
>
> Most of the time the smaller flower is seen with the fork
> crown that has *Colnago* stamped in it, around a smaller
> flower stamping similar to, but not the same as, the one on
> the dt. The frame on ebay is different, and I still think
> what happened was it was just assembled that way...the older
> crowns were probably still around..
>
> I'm confused by what you said below...I can't believe a 1970
> Super would have the smaller cutout on the dt lug. Every
> early 70s Super I've ever seen had the bigger, fluffier
> cutout. Yes, the profile is slightly different (the bottom
> of the flower on the very early frames is flatter than on
> slightly later frames), but the overall *size* of the cutout
> is distinctly larger than what you see on the ebay frame.
>
> I suppose I should take some pics to clarify this.
>
> Charles Andrews
> SoCal
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>
> To: "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]re: colnago on ebay
>
> > Charles,
> >
> > I just looked at my '70 anf my '74 for lug gutout shape.
> The early bike
> > has the "slimmer" club with the flat bottom to the stem.
> The '74 has the
> > "puffy" club with the rounded bottom. I conclude that when
> the stopped
> > doing 3 lug cutouts in '73 they changed to the puffy style
> cutout in the
> > bottom headlug only. I'm still in favor of late '74 on
> this one only on
> > account of the crown. Does anyone have what is positively
> a '75 with
> > original paint and decals? My guess there: crown with club
> and "Colnago"
> > on top, small oval in BB shell, fork tang is a crapshoot
> but I say a
> > small club in most. Anyone? There is a funny decal "snafu"
> that appears
> > on frames from about 1973 we can talk about later.
> >
> > Brian Baylis
> > La Mesa, CA
> > >
> > > Brian Baylis wrote, in part:
> > >
> > > "Perhaps the
> > > frame is later in '74 as opposed to earlier. I wouldn't
> be
> > > surprised if
> > > the '75's all had the oval. I'm still in favor of '74."
> > >
> > > I think this frame is later than that, for one reason:
> the
> > > flower cut-out on the dt lug is smaller, less fluffy
> shape
> > > commonly seen around 1977 or 1978. Also, note that the
> > > flower stamp on the *fork* IS the fluffier shape. This
> > > suggests any number of things. The fork may be a
> > > replacement...but I think it's more likely that when
> this
> > > frame was built, forks with both varieties of crown were
> > > available, and the frame was simply assembled with the
> > > earlier fork-crown.
> > >
> > > Although the picture is fuzzy, there's no doubt in my
> mind
> > > that the flower cut-out in the dt lug is the later
> style.
> > > There was a period of a couple of years in the late 70s
> when
> > > Colnagos were made with the older long-point lugs, but
> the
> > > later, smaller, cutout. This transition seems to have
> > > ended by 1981 or so, when the medium-point lugs were
> > > standard, and the cutout itself may have gotten even
> > > smaller. But I haven't checked that latter fact, I'm
> > > relying on memory.
> > >
> > > Charles "Colnago nut" Andrews
> > > SoCal
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Classicrendezvous mailing list
> > > Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > >
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