Re: [CR]completely amazing lugs

i'm not sure i follow you so let me rephrase a question: who did the kind of work you are refering to as being near-extinct? i'm asking it that way because you seem to be dismissing a few things that i thought were germaine to this topic: that builders (such as hetchins...) used available techniques to create their details in the most efficient manner. when "i" read about their methods i found the history completely refreshing. if "they" were not the model you're citing, who was? e-RICHIE chester, ct

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:12:10 GMT brianbaylis@juno.com writes: Richie, I don't see how that relates to my statement, exactly. I don't really care how Hetchins went about producing their frames and making their lugs, in that regard. Personally though, I would make a distinction between a lug "out of the box", wheather investment or pressed steel, a lug that was modified by reshaping the shoreline by adding or subtracting parts, and wheather the parts are hand made or "mass produced" in some way or another, and a custom designed one off completely handcut lug; when comparing that part of the lugmaking process. My statement applies to hand filing lugs, any type of lug, wheather stamped, IC, or with lugs with partially streamlined ornimentation. Filing the lugs once they are made and/or shaped and either thinning them before (i don't understand this method) or after brazing to the frame is more of what I'm talking about. I think most people are distracted from the surface of the lug by the fancy profile of some of them. I look more at how the lug was filed (or not) to determine how much effort the builder spent on the lugs. How the seat lug is treated usually shows both style and effort, or lack of it. Fancy (or simple) lugs can be cast, stamped, or cut by hand; but if they are not filed and contoured "properly", they are not serving the true purpose of a lug. The lug is there as a stress distribution collar; that particular job is best done when the lug is filed to releave the stress at the junction. Most people want to believe that filing lugs has to do with aesthetics. It does look better and more refined, but the original and main reason for filing lugs is from an engineering standpoint. To most people the difference between a real expert file job and a job where only minor filing and liberal use of 80 grit sandpaper is involved, or even a Dyna-file, is frequently nearly undectable. There are many different ways and styles to filing lugs. I will go into more detail about this later. Even the factory carosel brazed frames of the mass producers look pretty refined to most consumers. A clean braze and a nice paint job, and that is all it takes for people to look at a lugged steel frame in most cases and say things like "nice lugwork" and "that bike is a work of art", etc. The total man hours spent on a typical such bike is about 1 to 1 1/2 hours. In that case, neither file nor sandpaper is used! The fact is, the expert file job is very nearly extinct. There are two basic reasons, in my opinion. One, it is generally not economiclly practical to put in the extra time and effort if most consumers are not sensitive to the subtle differences. Two, largely on account of IC lugs being so hard to file, the builders who really enjoy the feel of the metal beneith their file and who truely feel that every one of the thousands of file strokes is neccessary in order to satisfy THEMSELVES as an artist, as opposed to a craftsman or a framebuilder, are quite few. I favor pressed lugs because they do a great job of stress distribition and they are actually "fun" to file; I find the time spent quite enjoyable and I believe it is part of how I leave my "fingerprint" on my work that the very sensitive and knowledgable find attractive and valuable. They also understand completely that the effort and attention permeates the framebuilding process from start to finish. Sounds corny perhaps, but I will explain further during my soon to arrive narriative on framebuilding, as requested by Don Ferris, I believe. There is in fact a ZEN mindset to building frames, if one chooses to go that route. It isn't any better or worse neccessarily, than any other choice in framebuilding. All are valid, all of the frames have a purpose. Each person does it for a different reason. So my point is still, lug filing the "old way", which was once common even in some of the largest factorys before the advent of the IC lug, is now nearly a lost art. We as fledgling Amarican framebuilders built our individuality and distinction based on these all but lost refinements in framebuilding. It is what used to distinguish us from other parts of the world so far as style and interpetation of the bicycle frame. Many have lost the ability to see the fine points of a superbly crafted frame, or have never made the distinctions I make when I look at frames. I believe part of why we are here and have this common interest is because we appreciate these charactistics, therefore it is neccessary to point them out and learn to recognize and appreciate them. Why spend so much time on things that few completely appreciate; things that apparently don't actually effect the way the bike rides and handles(or do they?). The answer goes FAR beyond the lugs. I will attempt to define the undefinable
in my next blurb.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA