Re: [CR]Yesterday's equipment in modern races

(Example: Framebuilding:Paint)

From: "Raoul Delmare" <Raoul.L.Delmare@worldnet.att.net>
To: "C.R. List" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, "Bruce C." <BruceCumberland@comcast.net>
References: <20040512.082124.2596.23.richardsachs@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Yesterday's equipment in modern races
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:25:44 -0500


Hey , Hey , Hey !!!!!!

When I wrote the message that BEGAN this "thread" , I DID indeed propose using vast amounts of money to form a team , to race on new steel frames fitted with "vintage" ( 1968 - 1977 ) equipment ( from both Italia and France ) .

I speculated "our" team could win races .

One of my main points was :

"Gain PUBLIC acknowledgement of the fact that a 21 pound bicycle , using a new steel frame-set , and component parts from around 1968 - 1977 . . . CAN be very competitive against an entirely made-in-2004 19-pound bicycle ."

unquote

Hey , I just thought it'd be FUN . . . if we had many tens of millions of Dollars ( or Euros ) to spend on such a frivolous idea !!!!!! I was just havin' fun playing with an idea . That's all . Just fun .

I did NOT mean that the very latest equipment is not better .

I wrote NOTHING about the equipment being obsolete , or not obsolete .

I have very little doubt that a team of some of the very best racers , would be able to win races on such bicycles , or at least come close to winning .

But the parts would still be obsolete !

The parts would still be OLD . Each part would need to be carefully tested before use ( x-ray , Magnaflux , Zyglo , etc. , whatever ) . The "vintage" parts would work DIFFERENTLY from "current-modern" parts .

I didn't write ANYTHING about "BETTER" .

Some racers might see it as a challenge , racing on such "old-style" bicycles . Some racers might see it as an interesting diversion . Some racers would undoubtedly HATE the idea . On the other hand , some professional racers were still using "friction" down-tube shift-levers on their front derailleurs , as recently as when ? Not long ago ? It'd be fun to show folks that they don't all have to use exactly the same stuff , taken from the same boxes .

All I wanted to "prove" was that the new stuff was not THAT much more EFFECTIVE . Is the new stuff more effective ? Yes ! Is it huge quantum leaps more effective ? I don't see how it could be . The power plant is still just a human being . New stuff is more convenient to use , in many ways - yes !!!!!! Does the new equipment result in slightly faster times ? Well sure . But does new stuff result in completely , unbeatably , faster racing times ? I don't see how .

Finally , comparing the advances in racing bicycles made since 1968-1977 . . .

To any kind of automobile / motorbike racing . . .

You have to remember , we would be using all-new-advanced year-2004 ENGINES on our "old-style" bicycles !!!!!!

Remember that the rider ( driver , pilot ) of a bicycle is also the ENGINE .

And geee whizzz , I was just havin' some fun playing , purely speculating , with a "thought-problem" . . .

I think "our" team would bring some small amounts of additional enthusiasm , and some small amounts of good publicity , to professional cycling .

And I think it might bring some folks back down to earth .

But bicyclists have ALWAYS sought out the very-very latest and newest technology !!!!!!

Whether it was pneumatic tires , and seamless steel tubing in the late 1800's . . . or the use of rare and expensive aluminum ( aluminium ) not long after . . . or Gary Klein's use of boron fiber in the 1970's ( just try to buy boron fiber even today ! ) . . . or Easton / Santana's pioneering of the use of scandium tubing only just a very few years ago . . . when your power plant only puts out a THEORETICAL PEAK of maybe perhaps 3/4 to 1.5 horsepower , well , you have to seek out any advantage you can get .

I understand that . I just thought perhaps it'd be fun to play with the idea , of showing today's modern bicycle shopper , that a 1968-1977-style bicycle could still win races , or at least come very close to winning !

If the leader of "our" "vintage" team came in FOURTH place in the Tour de France , that'd still be a huge victory for "our" team !

Just having fun playing with ideas and thoughts on the history of bicycling .

Raoul Delmare
Marysville Kansas


----- Original Message -----
From: Richard M Sachs
To: kohl57@starpower.net
Cc: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [CR]Yesterday's equipment in modern races



> chuckie is still horizontal - but i am now curious:
> are you suggesting that one should use the old stuff
> to justify one's cr list membership?
> e-RICHIE
> aka Richard M Sachs
> Chester, CT
>
>
> "P.C. Kohler" <kohl57@starpower.net> writes:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> "Chuck Schmidt" wrote:
> > And if you are both insecure and old, the next thing that happens is
> you
> > start muttering things like, "That Lance Armstrong fella could win his
> > sixth TdF on my ________!" (fill in the blank with your favorite
> > obsolete, old and forgotten racing bike). And, "If Lance won the Tour
> > on an old crock, well... everyone would see how our bikes are not
> > obsolete it's just those nasty companies that make components and
> frames
> > and sponsor the pros that don't want the public to know what crap the
> > current stuff really is compared to the old stuff."
>
>
> And tell us again Chuck why we (or indeed you) even belong to a
> discussion
> list called CLASSIC Rendezvous in the first place? Or has someone rather
> missed the point?
>
> Peter Kohler
> Washington DC USA