Re: [CR]Question about Windsor and Lotus

(Example: Framebuilders:Alberto Masi)

From: "jerrymoos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Jamie Swan" <jswan@optonline.net>, "Tom Palermo" <tom@velorider.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <BCDC8E9C.AE3%jswan@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Question about Windsor and Lotus
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:17:26 -0500


Understandable that a Jew who survived the Nazi era would not care for the German colors, particularly if he was raised in Europe. Proabably the majority of European Jews living in the 30's or 40's had some realtives or friends imprisoned or killed by the Nazis, even if they themselves escaped this fate. I've read this also extended to non-Jews in Eastern Europe, in that when the Peace Race was the biggest race in Soviet-controlled Eastern Europe, the East Germany riders encountered a lot of hostility from spectators who remembered the Nazi actions during the war. The Italians didn't seem to provoke the same type of hostility. The Italian fascists never seem to have been as fanatical as the Nazis, and their support of Hitler's anti-Semitism was often very half-hearted. It's been documented that in the Balkans Italian occupation officials often helped Jews escape Nazi concentration camps by issuing them Italian exit documents. So I guess after the war, most people would have had no problem with an Italian Bicycle Sport Club with red white & green colors.

Regards,

Jerry Moos
Houston, TX


----- Original Message -----
From: Jamie Swan
To: jerrymoos


<tom@velorider.com>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [CR]Question about Windsor and Lotus


> on 5/27/04 8:29 PM, jerrymoos at jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> > Red, black and gold are not "Nazi" colors. They were associated with
> > Germany long before and long after the Nazi era. Just as red white and
> > green Italian colors have no particular association with Mussolini and the
> > Fascists.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry Moos
> > Houston, TX
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jamie Swan" <jswan@optonline.net>
> > To: "Tom Palermo" <tom@velorider.com>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:30 AM
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Question about Windsor and Lotus
> >
> >
> >> on 5/26/04 10:04 AM, Tom Palermo at tom@velorider.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Does anyone know anything about the Lotus and/or Windsor brands? I found
> >>> a couple of Lotus decals and a set of Windsor GrandSport and Windsor
> >>> International decals. I don't anything about either of these brands so
> >>> any info would be helpful. I assume Windsor is a British brand.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Tom
> >>
> >> Both of those bikes were imported / distributed in Metro N.Y.C. by Sid
> > Starr
> >> here on Long Island. I can't recall the name of his company though...
> >>
> >> Sid sponsored our club, the German Bicycle Sport Club, in the 70's, and we
> >> had "Windsor" on our jerseys. The traditional club colors were white with
> >> black and red accents like the pre war German flag. Before Windsor we had
> >> Reingold beer as a sponsor. Junior riders were issued jerseys without the
> >> Reingold logo... Anyway, by that time there was no real association with
> >> anything German but those Nazi colors survived... That was until Sid Starr
> >> (a Jew) started writing the checks. The Windsor jerseys were blue with
> >> white.
> >>
> >> img src=http://homepage.mac.com/jamie_swan/me_george.jpg
> >>
> >> Jamie Swan - Northport, N.Y.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Sorry if I worded that poorly and/or offended anyone. I was trying to say
> that Sid Starr associated that color scheme with the Nazis.
>
> Jamie Swan - Northport, N.Y.