I'd agree with this poster. As well, painting and finishing is such a subjective 'non'science. In any business where success and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder, there will always be happy and unhappy people. I have never had a bike redone, but I did have a 1966 Mustang repainted once and it ended up costing far more than the original estimate---such is life.
Skip Sinatra, a distant cousin Frog Level, Virginia
>From: "Jose Fonseca" <locortjody@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: locortjody@earthlink.net
>To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: [CR]Enough Already with Cyclart
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:4:27 -0800
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>I have been watching the firestorm Re. Cyclart, pricing, business
>practices etc. since we started using Jim for a whipping boy some time
>back. I have not jumped in because I have never used Cyclart's services,
>but I have made what I think are some valid observations. My perspective on
>the issues come from my years in business dealing with the public in the
>musical instrument business, and my experience as a pretty darn fair
>amateur auto painter.
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>On "what he charges"...Whatever he charges, I can tell you, it's not
>enough. If he charged "enough" the business wouldn't be for sale. Jim would
>be able to go in once or twice a week, put out whatever fires are raging,
>and retire to his private shop to work on whatever he wants, or hang out on
>the beach with a beach chair and a book. We, as Vintage Bicycle
>Enthusiasts, by nature, live in the past. We remember when these bikes were
>to be had for just a few hundred dollars, and were manufactured in a world
>without usurious commercial rental rates, obscene workmen's compensation
>insurance rates, state disability insurance rates, HazMat disposal fees,
>environmental controls, community governments unfriendly to industrial
>businesses, and the rest. Additionally, we as Vintage Bicycle Enthusiasts
>tend to be "cheap" we fail to realize that if the bikes we like to ride
>were being made today, the frames would be a minimum of $2000 a piece. I
>suspect at least half the cost of a new frame is in the cost of the finish,
>not only in materials but in man/hours of labor. If the frame needs any
>repair, I suspect often it would be cheaper and easier to build a new frame
>than to repair an old, damaged one. But we, as romantics, want the old,
>damaged one fixed, and usually to a standard far in excess of the standard
>it was built to. I have an '82 Colnago Super with less than 2K miles on it,
>that has been indoors every moment it was not being ridden. If I got it
>back from any refinisher with the standard of paintwork it has, I'd want my
>money back.
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>Cycleart and their contemporaries must operate in the business environment
>of 2004, not in the business environment of 1974. There is a good reason
>most of the bikes in the world are being made in China, it costs too much
>to do it here and still turn a profit. As for horror stories about
>Cyclart's work, I don't discount what people have reported. Unfortunately,
>Jim has to hire from the pool of available applicants, and as I understand,
>they are mostly limited to members of the human race. I hope Cyclart was
>given the opportunity to put those situations right. Often the customer
>"thinks" he knows what needs to be done and how to do it. To those
>customers I say "fine, do it yourself". More often than not when I am
>diving into an old saxophone or British sports car (my field of expertise)
>the patient is a lot worse once you get in there. Internist/surgeons run
>into the same problem.
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>I have painted many automobiles. I have no interest in painting a bike. The
>many hours and minimum $100-150 in materials puts me wise right up front.
>Besides, I'm not set up for it. It's simply not worth my time. I'll let
>someone else do it.
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>As I stated before, I have never had a bike done by Cyclart. I own an
>Eisentraut A model that the previous owner had refinished by Cyclart, and
>the materials and workmanship are first rate. I don't like powder and I
>don't like white, but the bike is a stunner. I did have a Woodrup done by
>Joe Bell. I had a custom mixed color (light blue) and a red pinstripe on
>the lugs. it ended up just a tick over $600. I was thrilled and consider it
>a bargain. That is coming from a paint guy, someone who knows what work is,
>and is pretty darn fussy.
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>So let's quit kicking Jim and Cyclart around. Give thanks and praise to
>whatever God you worship that he and others are here to serve us. If you
>have a problem with Cyclart, I hope you spoke with the man himself in a
>quiet, reasonable and courteous manner, and gave him a chance to rectify
>the situation.
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>My way-more-than-2-cents worth.
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>Jody Fonseca
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>Gorgeous day in Whiskey Hill CA
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> --- locortjody@earthlink.net
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>--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.