Not at all, silly...I was being absolutely serious...not riding with the boys in the a.m., swimming instead, you might want to check with them if you're interested they start a little later on the weekends....stay in touch, mjd
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: CyclArt (John Pergolizzi)
> 2. RE: Pinstriping, it's curious (Chris Ioakimedes)
> 3. CyclArt Pricing (Jim Cunningham)
> 4. Re: Pinstriping, it's curious
> 5. DeVlamnick (Jack Gabus)
> 6. eBay outing: Normandy/Sachs FW remover (Dave Abraham)
> 7. Re: Elementary Control-Theory Mistake in Jobst's article onShimmy
> 8. Re: Elementary Control-Theory Mistake in Jobst's article onShimmy
> 9. Hetchins reproduction clothing (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andrew=20Moore?=)
> 10. Who's at Fault, Schwinn or Raleigh ?? (Donald Gillies)
> 11. Re: CyclArt Quality & Overcharge Concerns (Pete Imandt)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:11:24 -0500
> From: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "Howard La Grange" <howard@pacificturbine.com>,
> "Classic" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]CyclArt
> Message-ID: <006c01c3dc5c$27baa070$d99c4b0c@D1KBTP11>
> References: <BC2D5CFD.AE98%howard@pacificturbine.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 1
>
> Sorry Howard, your wrong if you perceive any thing I have written i.e
> Cyclart as an attack. It is ALL true story. I know that there is nothing
> to fear in the truth. So please do not discount my ramblings by
classifying
> them as "attacks". You will only be doing yourself and everyone else an
> injustice.
> And that "rubber" philosophy of reverse affect ; the "attack" bouncing
> and sticking on the thrower doesn't fly with me either. It's only another
> method of discounting other peoples experiences, and attempting to
undermine
> their position, respect and power in the group ( not that I assume to have
> any or all of these. I merely point this technique out as a matter of the
> politics of the verbal repartee and it's use and affect).
> I for one am glad for your positive experiences. Alot of people were
> very happy with Andy Fastow untill 19,000 folks lost their jobs.
> Please listen, don't judge and discount.
>
> ciao,
> John T.Pergolizzi
> New York City , N.Y.
>
> "Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull
> and ignorant; for they too have their story.
> Deserata
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard La Grange" <howard@pacificturbine.com>
> To: "Classic" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: [CR]CyclArt
>
>
> > CR Listers:
> >
> > I have had numerous bikes painted by CyclArt. Each transaction was
> handled
> > professionally with a real commitment to satisfy my requirements. In
> > regards to price, I always know where I stand and never have had a
> surprise.
> > While the price is not cheap, the finished product has always been a
work
> of
> > art. My philosophy on price is you never pay enough for good job and
can
> > never pay too little for a bad one. Both Jim and Susan are honest and
good
> > people who I respect. Attacking people like Jim and Susan only defames
> the
> > attacker.
> >
> > Howard La Grange
> > Oceanside, California
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:15:00 -0800
> From: "Chris Ioakimedes" <chriseye@comcast.net>
> To: "'Martin Needleman'" <mrndlmn@toad.net>,
> "'Dennis Young'" <mail@woodworkingboy.com>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [CR]Pinstriping, it's curious
> Message-ID: <000101c3dc5c$a7ae8440$57650518@kentro>
> In-Reply-To: <400826F6.7060708@toad.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 2
>
> I've heard and believed that the pinstripers at Schwinn in the 50s and
> before enjoyed their drink as well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Martin
> Needleman
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:01 AM
> To: Dennis Young
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Pinstriping, it's curious
>
> During my "eat lunch with Art Stump" days in Santa Monica in the '60s I
> was into the old car thing as well as the bicycle thing. As a matter of
> fact, that is how I happened to meet Art whose workshop was in the same
> industrial bay area as the master auto painter I was dickering with to
> paint my 726 Packard. In any case, it turned out that both the bike guys
>
> and the car guys used the same pinstriper and this old geezer did
> pinstripe work that leaped off the paint surface and into your eyes.
> Incredible energy but still in subdued good taste. Yes, yes, I know.
> These are mutually incompatible but you had to have been there.
>
> The first time (and every time thereafter) that I saw this guy at work I
>
> felt that I was on the verge of having my heart attack me. You see, the
> master pinstriper was an elderly, alcoholic, malodorous and cantankerous
>
> curmudgeon who could barely stagger to the job site. His hands shook so
> badly that he could barely hold the pint of Montauk muscatel "concealed"
>
> in a paper bag that he drank from constantly. Watching him work was a
> transcendental experience.
>
> With trembling hands he would dip his brush in the paint. With even
> greater trembling, his hand would slowly approach the bike (or auto).
> Then, for a single micro second, the trembling would disappear and he'd
> draw an incredible perfect freehand stripe and lift the brush from the
> bike with a spastically trembling hand. This would call for a sip of
> muscatel and then the work continued as described. You had to see it to
> believe it and it was hard to believe regardless of what you saw.
>
> They don't make them like that anymore.
>
> Martin Needleman
> Annapolis, MD
>
> Dennis Young wrote:
> > Charles' comments with regard to the pinstriping effect as manifested
> by the
> > stripers technique are thought provoking. Skilled spontaneity is a
> much
> > appreciated quality in eastern art as well. Are there considerations
> given
> > to frame ornamentation in terms of it's intended appeal when the bike
> is in
> > motion, as seen by another rider in motion? The movement generates a
> kind
> > of spontaneous effect in it's own right. I was following my friend on
> his
> > Hetchins at the track the other day, and the gold pinstriping around
> the
> > black painted seat stay bridge came alive in almost a hypnotic
> fashion.
> > Contemplating it, the track surface going by was conversing with the
> > pinstriping, while the black painted tubes provided the drone in the
> > background. Many times I have looked closely at the pinstriping when
> the
> > bike is stationary, but never did it have such appeal. Do some frame
> > builders and painters think about this aspect when considering design?
> I'll
> > save the wiseguys the trouble, and agree that all bikes look beautiful
> when
> > you are passing them in a race!
> >
> > Dennis Young
> > Spinning the wheels in Hotoka, Japan
> >
> >
> >
> >>At the risk of getting that creature down in SD annoyed at me, unless
> >>things have changed, Brian outsources pinstriping. He has a
> >>good striper he uses, apparently. To judge from what I've seen
> >>of this striper's work, I'd have to agree with Ken.
> >>
> >>Pinstripes are an interesting problem in restorations. I've seen
> >>a number of Mondia, Taylor, Allegro, and other restorations where
> >>the pinstripes were flawless, but leaden. They just sat there on the
> >>tubes, doing nothing.
> >>
> >>A proper pin-stripe job should be very lively, even skittish, if I can
> >>use that word to refer to pin-stripes. Check out the pinstripes on
> >>an early 70s Mondia Special or Allegro. Whoever was doing them
> >>really WAS a genius for the job. The stripes appear to have been
> >>applied very rapidly, but with great precision, and they look like
> they're
> >>about to fly right off the tubes. A proper pinstripe job like this
> >>gives a frame a wonderfully raffish effect.
> >>
> >>Risking a bit of egoboo here, the late 1950s Condor Pathracer I have
> >>that won Best Original at the last Velo-Rendezvous (Thanks
> Sterling..!)
> >>has pinstripes similar to an Allegro or Mondia, but even more elegant,
> >>in my opinion, and with the same liveliness..
> >>
> >>The 60s Paramount pinstripes have that same liveliness (I'm still
> jonesin'
> >>for a canary yellow 60s Paramount with chrome head-lugs and the
> >>red pinstripes throughout. What a lovely frame that is. Anyone have
> one
> >>to sell in a 56 or 57cm c-t in clean, original condition?????)
> >>
> >>It's an art, and, I imagine, something that can be learned, but not
> easily.
> >>It'd
> >>take a fair amount of practice to get it just right.
> >>
> >>So, if you're gonna have pinstripes done in a resto, make sure whoever
> >>does it, understands this problem, and understands how to do it right.
> >>
> >>Charles "Mondia nut" Andrews
> >>SoCal
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > .
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:34:08 -0800
> From: "Jim Cunningham" <Cyclartist@cox.net>
> To: "'Steve Neago'" <questor@cinci.rr.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]CyclArt Pricing
> Message-ID: <014f01c3dc5f$5706c090$c1c96f44@HOME>
> In-Reply-To: <009a01c3dc2c$63ca4d20$cbb71b18@test1>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: CyclArtist@cox.net
> Message: 3
>
> Steve,=20
> Please don't misrepresent the facts.
> Since our beginning in 1976 we have had a published price list that has =
> been
> mailed out by the thousands and on our website since 1990. It is so =
> detailed
> that I sometimes have people complain that it's like a tax form! =
> Generally
> people are impressed with the attention to detail and that it presents =
> many
> options that they may not have considered. That's what Custom service is
> about. A one price fits all is like saying one size bike fits all. Our
> warrantee has always been clearly stated & it has never been less than 2
> years. Any shipping damage is covered by our insurance. Here is a link =
> to
> our order guide: http://www.cyclart.com/
>
> Jim Cunningham, CyclArtist
> Vista, CA
> http://www.cyclart.com=09
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Steve Neago
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 4:30 AM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]CyclArt Quality & Overcharge Concerns by Pergolizzi
>
> I wonder if CyclArt is being selective on facts regarding "published =
> prices"
> because these have not always been fully disclosed in the past. My past
> experience years ago with CyclArt regarding a frame repaint quotation =
> was
> not the best. The initial "basic" email price from CyclArt at that time =
> in
> no way resembled their far higher final price quotation by the end of =
> the
> later telephone quotation. This is why I chose not to do business with
> CyclArt. It sounds like Pergolizzi had a similar experience like me =
> with
> CyclArt on "floating prices". Fortunately, I did not experience
> Pergolizzi's pain in receiving a frame and paint job allegedly "damaged =
> in
> shipping" according to CyclArt.
>
> I know that CyclArt's quotation to me for a "basic" frame repaint =
> included
> numerous additional charges not fully disclosed in their "basic" price =
> at
> that time:
>
> frame paint stripping & prep charges,
> head badge removal/reinstall charges,
> parts removal charges for only a headset
> frame alignment charges,
> frame minor ding charges,
> fancy lug charges,
> frame paint masking charges,
> fork painting charges
> type and color of paint charges,
> multiple layer paint spray charges,
> paint special application charges,
> decal purchase charges,
> decal application charges,
> pinstriping charges,
> multiple clear coat charges,
> packing and box charges,
> shipping charges,
> shop material charges,
> and a possible 10% undeclared miscellaneous charge on top of that!
>
> After all of those charges, the CyclArt paint warranty was only for 3
> months. The CR archives has documented some past concerns with CyclArt
> quality. Meanwhile, other CR members said they are completely happy =
> with
> the quality of work performed by CyclArt.
>
> Companies change pricing over time and CyclArt may have changed their
> policies, but I maintain that CyclArt adds numerous required charges =
> that
> literally "nickel and dime" a customer with higher costs. A more =
> reasonable
> business policy would be to create a "one price does all" instead of all
> these incremental charges. The bottom line is that the listed "basic" =
> price
> is not what you will finish with because there may be numerous required
> additional charges disclosed on their website. This is why I purchased =
> my
> own HVLP spray equipment to paint my frames for my projects!
>
> CAVEAT EMPTOR regarding CyclArt!
>
> Regards, Steve Neago
> Cincinnati, OH
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:39:31 EST
> From: Philcycles@aol.com
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Pinstriping, it's curious
> Message-ID: <6e.36eab001.2d3989e3@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 4
>
>
> In a message dated 1/16/04 10:20:00 AM, chriseye@comcast.net writes:
>
> >I've heard and believed that the pinstripers at Schwinn in the 50s and
> >before enjoyed their drink as wel
>
> My family were painting contractors and it seems drink and paint go
> togeather. Every painter I ever knew had a pint in his work grip.
> Phil Brown
> I'm sober in San Rafael, Calif.
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:39:03 -0800
> From: "Jack Gabus" <jack@shermangabus.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]DeVlamnick
> Message-ID: <MHELKCFNLJJCPOHKBLKAGEOBDFAA.jack@shermangabus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 5
>
> Re: Roger De Vlamnick:
>
> What year did RDV switch from Gios to Colnago (having the bicycle named
> after him)?
>
> Jack Gabus
> 3649 Atlantic Avenue
> Long Beach, CA 90807
> 562/426.0118
> jack@shermangabus.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:42:45 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Dave Abraham" <dave@hokiespokes.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]eBay outing: Normandy/Sachs FW remover
> Message-ID:
<3089.66.207.82.232.1074278565.squirrel@secure.mnsolutions.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 6
>
>
> http://ebay.com/
>
> thanx to all..
>
> Dave Abraham
> New Wheel ~ Hokie Spokes
> http://www.hokiespokes.com
> Beautiful SW VA
> voice: (540) 552-7765 (or) 731-1211
> FAX: 552-7768 (or) 731-0666
> "Treating every bike like our own.."
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:52:24 EST
> From: RDF1249@aol.com
> To: john.hawrylak@att.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Elementary Control-Theory Mistake in Jobst's article
onShimmy
> Message-ID: <9.20804728.2d398ce8@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 7
>
> In a message dated 1/16/2004 9:35:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> john.hawrylak@att.net writes:
>
> > Bob Freeman wrote "A load on the rear of the bike doesn't help either."
> >
> > I thought the rule of thumb was add weight evenly between front and rear
> > panniers when the initial weight added to the rear exceeded 10 to 15
pounds?
> > This seems to minimize the shimmy caused by a large weight added to the
> > rear.
> >
> >
> In the case of my Raleigh International across the US in 1976, I started
out
> with a front rack and panniers and a handlebar bag, but the shimmy was
worse
> with that setup than after I ditched the front rack and panniers. It may
have
> been two weights on either end of a big spring, exacerbating the problem.
>
> Bob Freeman
> Seattle
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:55:29 EST
> From: Philcycles@aol.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Elementary Control-Theory Mistake in Jobst's article
onShimmy
> Message-ID: <1e8.174f4cb8.2d398da1@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 8
>
>
> In a message dated 1/16/04 10:53:32 AM, RDF1249@aol.com writes:
>
> >> I thought the rule of thumb was add weight evenly between front and
rear
> >> panniers when the initial weight added to the rear exceeded 10 to 15
> >pounds?
> >> This seems to minimize the shimmy caused by a large weight added to the
> >> rear.
> >>
> >>
> >In the case of my Raleigh International across the US in 1976, I started
> >out
> >with a front rack and panniers and a handlebar bag, but the shimmy was
> >worse
> >with that setup than after I ditched the front rack and panniers. It may
> >have
> >been two weights on either end of a big spring, exacerbating the problem.
> >
> >
> >Bob Freeman
> >Seattle
> >
> The French method is to load the front far more than the rear. Some French
> tourists even dispense with the rear completely.
> Phil Brown
> Still sober in San Rafael, Calif.
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:47:56 +0000 (GMT)
> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Andrew=20Moore?= <admooreuk@yahoo.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Hetchins reproduction clothing
> Message-ID: <20040116194756.97117.qmail@web10208.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: admoore@btinternet.com
> Message: 9
>
> Hello All
> As many of you will know I've been selling reproduction Hetchins
> clothing for over a year, the current manufacture has hinted at a large
> price increase for 2004. As I've had various problems with them I'm
> reluctant to re-order from them. I have information on several other
> manufactures, but before I proceed I would like to know if any of you
> are interested in buying reproduction Hetchins clothing in the near
> future. The current price for a polyester short sleeve jersey is £38
> to £44.50 plus postage...
>
> One of the manufacture's from Spain, guesstimated the prices which
> would allow for a price reduction maybe £30 - £35 each, I know by
> American standards this is expensive. Please remember there is a
> limited demand for the custom produce.
>
> At present I have 4 short sleeve jerseys in stock at the old
> prices...38,40,44 and 46" chest one of each.
>
> Please note I AM NOT getting a woollen version done No arguments or
> discussion please!
>
> If I can accumulate some genuine interest I will pursue a replacement
> manufacture.
>
> thanks
> Andrew Moore
> Wiltshire UK
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
> your friends today! Download Messenger Now
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:49:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: Donald Gillies <gillies@cs.ubc.ca>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Who's at Fault, Schwinn or Raleigh ??
> Message-ID: <200401161949.LAA04484@cascade.cs.ubc.ca>
> Precedence: list
> Message: 10
>
> Which company started us on the trend towards more and more
> gears ?? Schwinn (paramount P-15), or Raleigh (12-speed Pro) ??
>
> I was also wondering if anyone sold a production bike, other than
> schwinn, that used a 15-speed campy triple.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:55:53 -0800
> From: Pete Imandt <imandt@earthlink.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Re: CyclArt Quality & Overcharge Concerns
> Message-ID: <BC2D81B2.1E2A%imandt@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 11
>
>
>
> In the garage of a widowed friend, I found a beautiful Olmo. I suspected a
> refinish, and lady remembered her husband had taken it to somewhere in
> northern San Diego County. Sure enough, there was a CyclArt logo on the
> stay. Sadly, when I e-mailed CyclArt, they were not able to provide any
> information about refinishing the Olmo. (Is dark egg-plant a standard Olmo
> color?)
>
> Pete Imandt
> Ramona, CA
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 13, Issue 64
> *************************************************