Re: [CR]Situation Desperate--Frame prices and demand

<Grant.McLean@SportingLife.ca> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [CR]Situation Desperate--Frame prices and demand

> we interupt the regularly scheduled programing...
>
> baylisimmo,
> i don't see the connection with "zen" and building that you reference
> here so i went back to the archives and pulled this post from ? years
> ago. here it is:
> ----- -----
> this, from my beautiful wife deb, a longtime
> practicing Zen Buddhist:
> "In its simplest form, Zen, as a religion, is
> to 'pay attention', meaning 'pay attention to
> the present moment'. So if you are paying
> attention while filing lugs into intricate shapes,
> that's Zen."
>
> me, i'm a jewdist, so i make my own rules.
> because i think about frames as well as make
> them, my thought on this issue is that a frame
> is a unit, a life form if you will. i see the
> work going into making a lug, or refining a lug,
> or adding adornment to a lug as part of the process
> rather than 'the' process. in essence, for me,
> all the energy spent on creating any one detail of
> a frame should be spread to the making of it in
> its entirety. the lugs are not the frame. the geometry
> is not the frame. the alignment is not the frame.
> the material is not the frame. the frame is the frame.
> ----- -----
> to wit, i don't see the connection between "enlightenment" and output.
> in fact, i don't think it's necessarily tangential to commerce either.
> e-RICHIE
> chester, ct
> and chuckie - i missed you!
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:38:03 GMT brianbaylis@juno.com writes:
> Taz,
>
> There are a few things that I must correct in terms of what you
> understand regarding the time it takes to build a frame. The build times
> of various builders are not "standarized". There seem to be two basic and
> distinct catagories. The typical effecient long time professional
> framebuilder is shooting for a 15 to 20 hours MAXIMUM build time. The are
> lots of ways to achieve this using "modern" framebuilding parts and
> methods, even amongst lugged steel builders. A feame is generally
> constructed in a 2.5 to 3 day period.
>
> The other catagory, which is not well recognized, are in fact the "art
> builders" whose general production takes AT LEAST 60 hours to complete;
> and can often reach 80 hours and over for something custom designed and
> unique. I can rarely even get in that much effort over the period of a
> month, even if I had nothing else to do. It is not routine work and
> requires motivation and a focused mental approach. The methodology and
> the primary purpose of each of these catagories of frames/framebuilders
> differs as much as the build time does. And there are in fact a few
> "Zen-like" builders out there. It IS NOT about the money. That is not to
> say that there is no money involved; there most certainly is, but these
> builders have other sources of higher monitary returns per hour that the
> framebuilding. These people severly limit their production and produce
> special works in small quanitity, as opposed to trying to make a more
> profitable product in enough volume to make a good living. A more
> comprehensive explaination may be forthcomming from me on this, but it is
> to appear on the framebuilders' list. These distinctions have existed for
> a long time, but the list of actual "zen-like" builders has dwindled to a
> fairly small number. I was just talking to Peter Johnson about this just
> last night. He plans to build about 4 per year.
>
> So some of this does not fit with the traditional business/economic
> guidelines. Zen-like framebuilding is outside that box.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> I can dig the Zen thing; but mountain top cave framebuilding is out!