> Well!..................For what ever it's worth, I've seen and watched
Jeff
> Lyon crank out a frameset in a days time, not sure if he'll do this
> nowadays. No fancy Machines, just a pile of files along with lots of Hack
> saws with his board with a zillion pegs. I think the only power tool he
used
> at the time was a dremmel tool!..............From start to finish 1 days
> time, less the paint of course and maybe a little extra filing. Of course
I
> don't know anything
> about his back log!.........But it would be great to sit and watch. I'm
not
> sure as to when I asked a certain question as to why he dosen't use the
> little
> fancy brake bridge support or what ever they are really called! So scold
if
> need be, I'm not intoframe building and some of the correct terms or name
> of certain parts!..............Anyway Jeff looked at me with a serious
smile
> and said, they make it easy to cover up mistakes! A BIG COOL AID SMILE
THAT
> WAS! As he got onto this frame I think I remember him saying, this blowk!
> Pardon my spelling if it's wrong for I never used this word before!..He
> needs this frameset real fast, so sorry if I can't talk for now. Off he
went
> buzzing away! Of course no Fancy lugged thing just with regular shapped
> luggs and all..So whether Jeff uses high buck tooling to build his current
> framesets or not and when the time comes it'll be Jeff who will be
building
> my frameset. As for myself I really don't need a high dollar frameset, as
> long as it rolls looks and feels good then that's good enough for
> me......Good lord I don't think I could go out and spend several grand on
a
> frameset, before I do I think I'd donate that kind of bread to a needy
> cause. Hey!...This is me, as they say different strokes for different
folks.
> I appreciate all of the fine work that goes into a frameset as like Brians
> but I simply cannot see myself doing that kind of money.
>
> On the other hand I didn't get into frame building because I think I would
> be as like Brian when building a frameset. When I was 16 or 17
> one frame builder of which I will not mention his name. He said hey want
to
> do some file work! I said OK!.............Off I went onto the first
> frameset,
> an hour passed and he said ''B'' you don't have to put that much work into
> the filing because once the paint goes on you'll never see all of your
hard
> work!.................I was saying to myself, ''HEY!''...............This
is
> my time and your getting it for free.......So off I went, he looked and
> shaked his
> head!................Several weeks passed and a person came in to pick up
> his framesets, just so happens these were his framesets. Boy if I knew who
> they
> were for I wouldn't have lifted a finger on them!...............Anyway he
> said #*&^##.....''GREAT JOB ON THE FILING!'' It's the ''BEST!'' that I
have
> ever seen you do! He looked and pointed the file to me!.....I looked with
a
> ''COOL AID SMILE AND SHOOK MY HEAD!'' Only word came out
> of me was Yep!..............That's about as close I ever got to building a
> frameset. I must say, with the available ''BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL!'' frame
> building
> material that is popping up all over the place I was tempted to give it a
> go!...................Nah!.............It's not going to happen.
>
> BTW: If you try contacting Jeff he might not be available, he could be
> fishing>>>>>>>>>>surfing or spending time with his little girl.
>
> Brian................Do what you need to do,...............most of all
> ''HAVE FUN!''....................AND BE HAPPY!
>
> BC
> Baron C..........And the gang!!.........Cranking out another long
> night!.........Oh!...........Early morning. Yeh!.......Just getting in a
few
> words.
> Renaissance cycles,
> Eindhoven Holland.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <brianbaylis@juno.com>
> To: <taztaylor@mindspring.com>
> Cc: <Grant.McLean@SportingLife.ca>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Situation Desperate--Frame prices and demand
>
>
> >
> >
> > Taz,
> >
> > There are a few things that I must correct in terms of what you
understand
> regarding the time it takes to build a frame. The build times of various
> builders are not "standarized". There seem to be two basic and distinct
> catagories. The typical effecient long time professional framebuilder is
> shooting for a 15 to 20 hours MAXIMUM build time. The are lots of ways to
> achieve this using "modern" framebuilding parts and methods, even amongst
> lugged steel builders. A feame is generally constructed in a 2.5 to 3 day
> period.
> >
> > The other catagory, which is not well recognized, are in fact the "art
> builders" whose general production takes AT LEAST 60 hours to complete;
and
> can often reach 80 hours and over for something custom designed and
unique.
> I can rarely even get in that much effort over the period of a month, even
> if I had nothing else to do. It is not routine work and requires
motivation
> and a focused mental approach. The methodology and the primary purpose of
> each of these catagories of frames/framebuilders differs as much as the
> build time does. And there are in fact a few "Zen-like" builders out
there.
> It IS NOT about the money. That is not to say that there is no money
> involved; there most certainly is, but these builders have other sources
of
> higher monitary returns per hour that the framebuilding. These people
> severly limit their production and produce special works in small
quanitity,
> as opposed to trying to make a more profitable product in enough volume to
> make a good living. A more comprehensive explaination may be forthcomming
> from me on this, but it is to appear on the framebuilders' list. These
> distinctions have existed for a long time, but the list of actual
"zen-like"
> builders has dwindled to a fairly small number. I was just talking to
Peter
> Johnson about this just last night. He plans to build about 4 per year.
> >
> > So some of this does not fit with the traditional business/economic
> guidelines. Zen-like framebuilding is outside that box.
> >
> > Brian Baylis
> > La Mesa, CA
> > I can dig the Zen thing; but mountain top cave framebuilding is out!
> >
> > -- "Taz Taylor" <taztaylor@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Grant,