snipped: "framebuilders gravitating to "out of the box" use..."
brian just a little friendly debating is all i ax for... how do you juxtapose the above sentiment with the fact that (firms such as ) hetchins, long associated with championing the "lug cutter's art", did their best to mechanize the entire process vis-a-vis* bulk cutting and the like? that is - they weren't doing each and every fleur-de-lis with a 4" file. i'm using tom rawson's posts from last year as a basis for axing this question. search the archives for the entire story. e-RICHIE chester, ct * i just wanted to use "vis-a-vis" in a sentence
brianbaylis@juno.com writes: I have some of those lugs myself. They are the ones that I built my vibrant stay hellenic frame with. I also have another set still unbuilt. The lug pattern I believe originated with Bill Hurlow while at Condor, from what I've heard. I do have a Hurlow frame with those lugs on it.
As far as how they are made and who made them, I have my own opinion about that. My opinion is that there is a certain amount of "fantacy" in that figure of 35 hours. It's easy to convince "modern" framebuilders and non-framebuilders that they were made by hand by a certain person at the expense of 35 hours of hand work. Someone like me who has cut my share of lugs and seen and been around framebuilding for as long as I have, is not as easily convinced. But this is for me to know. Regardless, they are what they are. There are about 6 different patterns commonly available from this source. I also have Hetchins Experto Crede (one of my favorites), Ephgrave Super #1, and Hurlow/Condor. There are a few other things available also. I also have an old style set (made from older blanks and the original Magnum Opus pattern) as opposed to things made from modern Hayden blank lugs or the "modern" version Magnum Opus style lugs.
Lugs like those should be given the attention of someone who has not forgotten what styling lugs is all about and who will file them in an artistic and traditional way. Doing otherwise will be wasting their potential. There aren't many true framebuilders of this sort still active. The general deffinition of "a work of art" and "hand craftsmanship" within the realm of framebuilding has deteriorated considerably since the advent of investment cast lugs and the mass of framebuilders gravitating to "out of the box" use of same. I think it's time we returned to the higher deffinition of hand craftsmanship, artistry, and "mastery" of the craft. Personally, I am somewhat shocked at what is considered a Master work in our current times. The industry in general is to blame, but the few who genuinely appreciate this side of the craft need to develope a keener eye and become more educated as to what is mastery and what is just good capable framebuilding.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA