With all due respect, wake me up when economics 101 is over....yawn... The equations indicated may be logical towards widgits pumped out of a machine, but creative work may have some other less tangible elements that are worth considering. Why paint Brian into a hypothetical corner of what his work should be worth in such and such a time. Before anyone offers any more advice on how he should approach his new enterprise, I'd like to hear if the man feels that his best work still lies in front of him? We all know that Mr. Baylis has a good mind, so why not have more consideration for the man, than for what he creates for the economic purposes. He may adhere to a profitable pricing that also deservedly guarantees years of orders lined up, but that may not be what he best needs in terms of establishing maximum growth as a artist frame builder, or in putting the growth he has already attained into maximum usage. Of course it is up to him, and although I'm not sure if he has expressed it in such certain terms, that is my take on what he wants to achieve. The pressures of commissions can be a inhibitor, compelling one to continually respond to what the "law of supply and demand" dictates, rather than to trying something new, or simply even finding the time to improve on old ways of doing things. I hope he does some experimentation....whatever. If one of his new frames along the path is only worth a hundred bucks, it can have other useful purposes. I don't want one of his current bikes, I want one made ten years from now. Can I place my order?
Dennis Young
Hotaka, Japan, where a helicopter landed in the middle of the pista track
yesterday.
> Brian,
>
> You don't need to correct my understanding of the time it takes to build a
> frame. The time is immaterial to the point I was making. Whether you (or
> anyone) builds a frame in 6 hours or 6 months, the same economic factors
> apply when you market (sell) your services.
>
> Your craftsmanship, or artistry if you prefer, creates a Demand (big D) for
> your frames. Your willingness to build frames and sell them (let's say at
> Peter's rate of 4 per year) creates the Supply (big S). If your frames cost
> $4000, eight people want to buy them. If your frames cost $6000, four
> people want to buy them and if they cost $8000, nobody wants to buy them.
>
> If you price your frames at $4000, you have eight people trying to buy 4
> frames. You've created excess demand (your waiting list). Let's say I'm
> the first person on your backlog of orders (lucky me). When you build my
> frame, I'm going to pay you $4000 and then I'm going to turn around and sell
> it to Chuck for $6000 and get back in line. I'm going to be $2000 better
> off and that money could have been yours. The next guy in line is one of
> the four that would have paid $6000. Since your price is $4000, he will pay
> you $4000 and think he got an incredible deal then spend his $2000 on gold
> plated carbon fiber parts to put on your frame. Again, that's $2000 you
> could have had. I know you said 'it's not about money', but when many
> people want to buy an item that's scarce (your frames), it is about money.
> The market forces will work to raise the price of your frames toward $6000
> whether you want to charge that much or not. It's just a question of
> whether you will reap the full economic reward for your effort or will
> someone else.
>
> Why is this relevant? Well Peter responded to your original post that
> (paraphrasing here) 'if you have more work than you can handle, that means
> your prices are too low.' After some others dissented on this advice, you
> wrote, " it is not my nature" and "is there really room to raise my price?"
> My first post below was an affirmation of Peter's advice (plus some Economic
> mumbo jumbo) and a suggestion where the price should be. I guess the point
> of this post, other than to clarify that I was talking about price and
> demand, is to say that the market will determine the price, it's up to you
> to benefit from it.
>
> With regards to the time and skill it takes to build an artisan frame and
> how to identify those qualities in a completed frame - I'm an eager and
> attentive student. Maybe I can buy you a beer at Le Cirque and we can talk
> about both.