No Chater Lea rear dropouts on my mid '30s Velox white "Flyer" and the ends of the rear tubes are filled with brazing. The ends of the fork tubes, however, are open and the fork ends inside the tubes are positioned as close to the center line as possible - right fork drop to the left, left fork drop to the right.
Martin Needleman Annapolis, MD
Joe Bender-Zanoni wrote:
> Finally I have wised up to what Richie is talking about.
>
> Chater Lea dropouts with the plug in fittings are shown (and for sale!) on
> John Barrons website.
>
> http://www.velostuf.com/
>
> These are not used on my 1937 Drysdale or Pop Brennan. They use
> conventional slotted tube stays but do not fill the end of the tube with
> brazing. It is open.
>
> I have the Chater Leas installed on another unknown builder track frameset
> from the same time though. So Richie is exactly right- the old guys used
> shortcuts too. But not the top Brennans and Drydales. Drysdale made a range
> of lower line bikes too in that era called Velox Red Devil. I wonder if they
> use the Chater Lea dropouts?
>
> Joe Bender-Zanoni
> Great Notch, NJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
> To: <joebz@optonline.net>
> Cc: <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Nagasawa track bikes
>
>
>
>>snipped:
>>"To me, plug in on the Nagasawa means a cast dropout (forkend)
>>with a cast in socket for the tube. A shortcut, but a nice shortcut."
>>
>>
>>jbz
>>in the framebuilding trade, both "plug-in" dropouts and "cast w socket
>>OR spiggot" dtopouts are thought of as labor saving types. why? because
>>they eliminate a step or two involving slotting the stays and finessing
>>the confluence between them. the frames i worked on had a male/female
>>thingy going on between the dropouts and the frame.
>>i'm merely pointing out that these go to the "old days"; they're not new.
>>
>>e-RICHIE
>>chester, ct
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Joe Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net> writes:
>>I don't understand this about plug in dropouts on Pop Brennan and
>>Drysdale
>>track frames. To me, plug in on the Nagasawa means a cast dropout
>>(forkend)
>>with a cast in socket for the tube. A shortcut, but a nice shortcut.
>>
>>All the examples Brennan and Drysdales I have seen and own have simple
>>plate
>>dropouts, cut from good quality steel. Ritchie- do you say plug in
>>because
>>the tube ends are left open? They are, there is no filler to close the
>>tube
>>ends.
>>
>>The Brennans were famous for using Brown and Sharpe tool steel for the
>>plates. It is rather hard to cut as you would imagine. Jeff Groman has
>>the
>>templates they used to cut the dropouts.
>>
>>By the way he also has the other Brennan tools and special tooling, like
>>the
>>blocks for bending the bars as liked by the various riders..
>>
>>Joe Bender-Zanoni
>>Great Notch, NJ
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
>>To: <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
>>Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>>Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:03 PM
>>Subject: Re: [CR]Nagasawa track bikes
>>
>>
>>
>>>just for the %#(&^ ] of it i'll add:
>>>i've done a few repairs in my time and have been pleasantly
>>>surprised at the construction quality i've seen in the 20s/30s,
>>>etecetereterera frames built by the drysdales and pop brennans
>>>of the world. these were true track frames built for the original
>>>six-day era.
>>>many/most of these had plug-in dropouts.
>>>proper-issimo.
>>>e-RICHIE
>>>chester, ct
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> .