Listmembers,
Boys, boys, boys! Hold on a minute. How about this idea? Perhaps instead of taking sides based on your emotional attachment to a given nationality based on all kinds of basically irrelevent standards; perhaps spend some time studying the virtues of any give bicycle based on things that actually matter. Making generalizations and blanket statements about the bikes of a nation is "uninformed" in my view. I study a bike based on the quality of the building techniques for starters, which for a framebuilder is the only way to look at a frame. Never mind the name on the bike, where it was made, and even the quality of the workmanship during finishing (at first) and look at the logic and approiateness of the design and how the bike rides based on your needs. Sure, we are all somewhat different, but a lively, comfortable, and well fitting bike is what most of us are after in the ultimate end. Celebrate the fact that it IS a bicycle as opposed to a lawn mower or a gas guzzeling SUV. We all see different things in various bikes. I LOVE my bikes made in SCOTLAND, ENGLAND, FRANCE, ITALY, and the USA! Some of them don't handel the way I like but I find merit in other aspects of the machine. I appreciate creative lugwork, wheather simple or ornate; especially if it is well done. If a bike is beautifully finished, rides well, has character and charm then I'm happy to own it and ride it. Taking sides based on national origin is illogical to me. Every country produces gems and clunkers. I say learn more about the way bikes are built and learn to appreciate EVERYTHING each bike has to offer. I have preferences to some degree, but this "friendly debate" is missing the point by quite a long ways in my opinion.
That being said, I must say this one thing. I have been working on frames intimately almost every day of my life for the past 30 years. I see them from the framebuilders perspective and have no emotional attachment to any brand or nationality. But of the "high end" frames I handle, some of the early 70's Raleighs are the crudest frames I've ever seen in terms of methods and workmanship. And yet I keep hearing about how "nicely" the Raleigh International rides. I am now curious to the point that I am seeking to buy or at least ride one my size to experience it myself to satisfy my curiosity. Some of the Raleighs give me the creeps to look at, but if it is still in one piece after this much time and it rides well, then I will respect them for that reason alone.
I suggest to those who have strong "anti something" tendencies to go out and put a SINCERE and honest effort to expand your experiences and horizions towards bikes in general. An Italian "racing" bike does not have to be ridden in a race to be appreciated. You can put a bag over the Raleigh and enjoy it or ride with your eyes closed. Don't be so narrow minded and DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH for crying out loud. Preferences based on nationality are foolishness if you ask me.
And now back to our regular programming.............
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
I hardly know where to start.
First, thanks to Mr. Martinez I am corrected on one score: the TI Raleigh pro bikes definitely won a lot in the pro peleton (and, by the way, I'd *love* to own one of those red and yellow beauties)...but that was not the bike I was referring to...I was actually referring to all the bikes Mr. Kohler likes to extole so much..none of those won anything, so far as I know.
Which brings me to Mr. Kohler. No vitriol intended here, but, really, man, how valuable is your opinion anyway? Far as I can tell, you don't own or ride *any* vintage italian race iron, so how would you know what it's like to ride that iron on a regular basis?
For what it's worth, they ride just as nice slow, as fast, so enough with the straw men, ok?
And before you start assuming all kinds of stuff about me, I should inform you that I rode a Falcon San Remo for 20-odd years, in all weather, including 3 feet of fresh snow (no lie), and it's one of my favorite bikes...the fact that it's rather italian in a 50s kind-of-way probably has something to do with it. ;>
No offense intended, or taken, but you might try owning and riding some italian race iron before you are so free with your opinion of same.
Charles Andrews
SoCal