Charles, I am no expert in these matters and wouldn't like to step on the toes of two largest world renown international dealers. If the frame number first digit is a five its a 1950's frame. Some thirties frames start with fives but as far as I am aware the "Avant Coureur" was only produced in the 40's & 50's. The Allrounder I would swear was always a plain lugless welded frame where as the Avant Coureur was bilaminated and to my knowledge produced in three different bilaminated patterns. The AV survived into production up until the demise of Claud Butler's. The Allrouder ceasing sometime in the early 50's. Regarding transfers stick to the large script signature type these were universally used throughout the 40's & 50's. As a general guide the Block letter's were normally used on track frames although you could specify to have these fitted. The small script seem to be very late and Holdsworth's carried on with this type to something like 63 when they changed again. I would love to come to the Cirque next year but this would be completely out of the question. You see the occasional item I sell is to keep a roof over our heads and is out of economic necessity. Unfortunately I have a severely handicapped son (Mark) who is profoundly Autistic and because of this my wife is unable to work. It really is a struggle to make ends meet. That's why my prices are always that much lower than the dealers. Really loathed to sell this stuff as a lot of it belonged to my Dad and Father-in-Law but have no choice. PS. If you know of anyone who wants a beautiful CB I am selling one very cheaply on the list right now. I never ever seem to get any takers just supply everyone with pictures etc. That's life. Take care and best wishes Mick.
Best wishes and be lucky. Michael Butler Huntingdon UK.
>From: "Charles T. Young" <youngc@netreach.net>
>To: "Mick Butler" <pariscyclesuk@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR] Claud Butler Frame Numbers - Avant Coureur
>Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:06:22 -0400
>
>Mick:
>
>Thanks for the data points. I just received a Claud Butler Avant Courer
>from
>Hilary at the Cirque. Serial number (BB and steerer) is:
>
>348
>521
>
>Hilary figured it to be a 1948 but Alex von Tutschek opined that it was a
>Jan. 1952 when I showed him the frame. Doesn't particularly matter other
>than for transfers sake. What year do you make it out to be? Also, is it
>true that the Avant Coureur was renamed the Allrounder but retained the
>bilaminated construction and frame design?
>
>Come to the Cirque next year! Squirrel away any tiny profit that you might
>derive from selling us the lovely bikes that you find. Start putting it a
>cracker tin earmarked for Cirque 2005. Saw the _lovely_ Hetchins that you
>sold to my very good friend Tom Hayes down there. What a beautiful
>understated frame.
>
>My 1973 Speedwell set up as a 5-spd TT bike was an amusement for those
>brave
>(and foolish) enough to ride it. Whippy doesn't begin to describe it...
>
>regards,
>Charlie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mick Butler" <pariscyclesuk@hotmail.com>
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:42 AM
>Subject: [CR] Claud Butler Frame Numbers
>
>
> >
> > I have in my ownership three Claud Butler frames. Model types
>authenticated
> > by their previous owners. All frames just one previous owner.
> > 1. 504 2544 1950 International Club original owner Frank Butler my
>father.
> > Original colour flam green with chrome ends and fork crown. Contrast
>lining
> > in white.
> > 2. 524 1568 1952 International Path original owner Ted Tyndall.
>Original
> > colour flam silver with chrome ends and fork crown. contrast lining in
>red.
> > 3. 5412 8756 1954 Buccaneer original owner William Hollis. Original
>colour
> > yellow. This machine was fitted with a very rare CB type of transfer.
>These
> > have the wording CB The Worlds Famous Lightweight. Supplied photos to
>the
> > V.C.C. Claud Butler marque enthusiast of these very unusual CB
>transfers.
> > Was told these were only fitted to export orders but I cannot verify
>this.
> >
> >
> > Best wishes and be lucky. Michael Butler Huntingdon UK.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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